Question to the KR

[Андрей Захаров]

Dear colleagues))) I have one question for the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic present at our site-Forum of detectives ... A question of the following nature. In accordance with Article 3 of the Federal Law "On Private Detective and Security Activities in the Russian Federation" for search purposes it is permitted, among others, to provide services for studying the wound, collecting information for conducting business negotiations, and identifying unreliable or insolvent business partners.
Based on this premise of the law, “market research” activities are licensed. However, in accordance with generally accepted standards, market research activities are carried out by persons conducting marketing research and no license is required to conduct marketing research.
The essence of the question ... What, in the opinion of the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, “market research” activities can be attributed to the competence of private detectives engaged in licensed activities, that is. where is the line between the activities of marketers and private detectives. What actions under the law, according to representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, can only be carried out by private detectives with the appropriate licenses during market research.
These questions were posed specifically to the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic present at our Forum. I would really like to know exactly their opinion on these issues.
Answers like: “We are not private detectives and we are not interested in this” are not welcomed in principle, due to the fact that the questions were posed to the participants of the detective Forum. Thank you in advance for the detailed answers ...

 

[Гудимов Анатолий Геннадиевич]

Dear colleagues))) I have one question for the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic present at our site-Forum of detectives ... A question of the following nature. In accordance with Article 3 of the Federal Law "On Private Detective and Security Activities in the Russian Federation" for search purposes it is permitted, among others, to provide services for studying the wound, collecting information for conducting business negotiations, and identifying unreliable or insolvent business partners.
Based on this premise of the law, “market research” activities are licensed. However, in accordance with generally accepted standards, market research activities are carried out by persons conducting marketing research and no license is required to conduct marketing research.
The essence of the question ... What, in the opinion of the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, “market research” activities can be attributed to the competence of private detectives engaged in licensed activities, that is. where is the line between the activities of marketers and private detectives. What actions under the law, according to representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, can only be carried out by private detectives with the appropriate licenses during market research.
These questions were posed specifically to the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic present at our Forum. I would really like to know exactly their opinion on these issues.
Answers like: “We are not private detectives and we are not interested in this” are not welcomed in principle, due to the fact that the questions were posed to the participants of the detective Forum. Thank you in advance for the detailed answers ...

While experts of the Kyrgyz Republic are thinking I will state my vision of this issue.
In my opinion, the Law is restrictive in nature for a particular profession - a private investigator, without giving any advantage. No one can prohibit a private person from conducting marketing research under existing law. Since the Law does not relate anything to the exclusive competence of private detectives, it’s impossible to talk about activities that can be carried out only by private detectives

 

[Детективное агентство Тула]

Hello Andrey Valerievich!
Of course, you know that I am not a licensed private investigator and not a practicing specialist of the Kyrgyz Republic, but sometimes I can offer some answers to questions regarding both BHD and KR.

In my purely opinion, the competence of private detectives that carry out licensed activities in terms of conducting activities to "study the market" can be attributed only to their purely specific actions, which are reflected in Art. 5 LAW ON PRIVATE DETECTIVE AND SECURITY ACTIVITIES IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION.

Article 5. Actions of private detectives

In the course of private detective activity, oral questioning of citizens and officials (with their consent), inquiries, examination of objects and documents (with the written consent of their owners), external examination of buildings, premises and other objects, observation to obtain the necessary information in order to provide services listed in the first part of Article 3 of this Law.
When conducting private detective activities, the use of video and audio recordings, film and photography, technical and other means that do not harm the life and health of citizens and the environment, in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation.
(as amended by Federal law of 22.12.2008 N 272-ФЗ)
In the course of carrying out his activities, a private detective is required to comply with the legislation of the Russian Federation regarding the protection of information affecting the personal life and property of citizens.
(as amended by Federal law of 22.12.2008 N 272-ФЗ)

These actions, in my opinion, can only be used by licensed private detectives.
The rest, not violating the laws of the Russian Federation, can be applied by any entities
The line between the activities of marketers and private detectives passes precisely according to Art. 5 specified law ..
Point 2 of Art. 3 - market research, collecting information for business negotiations, identifying insolvent or unreliable business partners
IT IS FORBIDDEN to individuals and legal entities that do not have the legal status of a private investigator, private security guard or private security organization, it is prohibited to provide the services provided for in this article.
That is, if the service will be called COMMERCIAL MARKET MONITORING FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF DETERMINING POSSIBLE RISKS , render it, again, in my opinion, can anyone, NOT ONLY A PRIVATE DETECTIVE ...
These are the legal scissors!

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Anatoly))) And here, after all, the difference is that the services offered by the Kyrgyz Republic go beyond the scope of ordinary marketing research, which involve certain activities in certain ways ... Let's try to figure it out ... Why do we need to listen to different opinions ... .
Regarding what has been said regarding the name of the service by a respected colleague, "Monitoring of the commercial market ..." - this is precisely marketing research ... But what’s their side is a question ... Based on the interpretation that the activities of "commercial intelligence "not really" marketing research "... And something more ...

 

[Бедеров Игорь Сергеевич]

My opinion about NPV has not changed from what has been expressed. So, NPV is a type of licensed activity for the provision on a contractual basis of services to individuals and legal entities . In essence, the law and commentary on it, NPV is carried out with a specific procedural order. The purpose of this procedure can and should be the submission of investigation data to the bodies of inquiry, investigation and the court. And that is important. In essence of the law, BH should to be a full participant in the process.

KR, collects information, including by order of third parties, also without breaking the law. He does not violate them because both the Kyrgyz Republic and the BH are given the same opportunities, I quote ... In the course of private detective activity, oral questioning of citizens and officials (with their consent), inquiries, examination of objects and documents (with the written consent of their owners), external examination of buildings, premises and other objects, observation to obtain the necessary information in order to provide of services

This is the law on NPV and it clearly states the order of action of the NPV. At the same time, the Kyrgyz Republic, like any citizen, has the right to carry out the same actions, as they are his inalienable rights and freedoms. I quote ... Everyone has the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information by any legal means. The list of information constituting a state secret is determined by federal law. .

So that all dispute about the legality of the METHOD of obtaining information . However, when it’s not about information about a business, it’s not enough to make sure that you are using legitimate working methods. It must also be remembered that access to certain information may be limited due to the fact that its disclosure may harm the state or may be personal data of a citizen.

In general, there are only two aspects related to the legal framework of the Kyrgyz Republic: the legality of information collection methods and the legality of access to specific information. If observed, the actions of a competitive intelligence agent are absolutely legal.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Igor, responding to your statement on the "procedural order" of the BH activity ... That's just the BHD and the Laws are not related to the actions that regulate the procedure for collecting information precisely in the procedural order, in particular the CPC .... BHD is not an activity aimed to collect information only in criminal matters ... This is clear from the meaning of the current Legislation ... The question was posed by me directly ... Here, after all, we are discussing not general principles guaranteed by the Constitution of the Russian Federation ... BH is also guided by general principles and collects information on the basis of from the general principles guaranteed by our Laws ... The question is different ... "Which, according to representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic," market research "activities can be attributed to the competence of private detectives engaged in licensed activities, that is, where is the line between activities of marketers and private detectives. What actions under the law, according to representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, can be carried out only by private detectives during market research, and having appropriate licenses ".. And this question has been voiced ... But the answer (clear and clear) has not yet been received ... And as for the implementation of certain actions, of course, no one restricts a person’s freedom for the same collection of information, just like freedom of extraction of minerals, trade in alcoholic beverages (for example) ... It’s just that the Law regulates this activity as licensed (in certain cases, in particular in the Law on BH and OD, on the methods of obtaining this information, etc., as indicated in detail dear Konstantin Mikhailovich in his post) ... Get a license and carry out activities ... Something like this ...

 

[Матушкин Андрей Николаевич]

The question was not at all simple asked by Andrew.
We are waiting for the Kyrgyz Republic, is such a distinction possible?

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

I will answer as I understand the situation
As soon as we understand why when looking at operas - this is ORM, when the BH looks at the same object - this is the BHD, and when the grandmother looks the same way - it "just looks" - we will understand everything else.

Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this issue in the first place.

I wrote an article the other day "Detective Operations and Competitive Intelligence" , and then we discussed it at the Police-Russia Forum. I didn’t post this article here, to be honest, just for the sake of saving time - because I don’t want to discuss the same thing for the hundredth time, and I already know who says something here.

Nevertheless, some of the answers to the question asked now are there. And since the question arose - I gave a link to the article.

Another part of the answer to the question asked here appeared on Police-Russia. The "formula", which was deduced at that Forum of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, following the discussion of this material, looks like this:

The separation between ORM and non-ORM is carried out exclusively by subject. Those,. if the opera is talking and for the purposes of the ARD, it is ORM. And if not operas (or operas, but on personal matters) are talking, not OPM. All.

Hence the conclusion: even if Sbshnik, Krshchik or BH is listening, for example, on the phone, he does not carry out ORM, but stupidly commits a crime. If the opera speaks with a citizen for the purposes of the ARD - a survey, not for operas and not for the purposes of the ARD - just a conversation, or at worst, an explanation in accordance with the Labor Code and other laws.

Thus, KRSchik, Sbshnik, BH may not have to think about what he is doing, the main thing is not to do what is directly indicated in the Special Part of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.

Thus, the final answer to the question about market research by the Private Detective lies, in my opinion, in the phrase "for search purposes". I’ll leave it off screen that the term “search” is not deciphered at all in the Law on NPV. We will proceed from the fact that the BH somehow knows that there is a “detective”.

Since the specialist of the Kyrgyz Republic, like the marketer, and just an ordinary citizen, doesn’t work “for investigation” - he does not need to bother with this.

Here is my opinion on the outcome of communication with both private detectives and with former security officials from various structures.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Thank you all for the discussion ... It is a pity that there was no direct answer ...

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Direct answer:

The essence of the question ... What, in the opinion of the representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, “market research” activities can be attributed to the competence of private detectives engaged in licensed activities, that is. where is the line between the activities of marketers and private detectives. What actions under the law, according to representatives of the Kyrgyz Republic, can only be carried out by private detectives with the appropriate licenses during market research.

The competence of a private detective can be attributed to any market research activity not expressly prohibited by law, which is part of his work carried out "for the purpose of investigation" (as interpreted by the NPV Law).