Interview of the creator of the "Eyes of God" Evgeny Antipov

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“If I need to tell you how one of you is breaking the law, I’ll do it.”​

Archive of Evgeny Antipov

In early July, the channel and chats of "Eyes of God", one of the main Russian bots offering "punching" services, disappeared from Telegram. The blocking began after a court decision, which sided with Roskomnadzor (RKN) and accused the Eye of God of violating citizens' rights to "personal and family secrets." This is not the first such platform blocked at the request of the authorities - but the real campaign against the black market for personal data was launched by the RKN only after the publication Bellingcat investigations about FSB surveillance of Alexei Navalny and his poisoning. It was based on information obtained through the "punch". The siloviki “are afraid of Voldemort” stories with “Novichok”, says Evgeny Antipov, founder of the “Eyes of God”. Meduza's special correspondent Lilia Yapparova argued with him about the legality of the project, learned how FSB officers and journalists are put on the monitor in the Eye of God, where Antipov has several dozen letters from government agencies - and whether he is following his clients at the request of security officials.

"Preparing for an attack on Telegram"​

- On July 2, a day after the court decision on blocking, your entire infrastructure disappeared from Telegram - a channel with a million subscribers, several chats. How did this happen?

- Even on Friday morning [July 2] we were completely calm: everything worked, everything was fine. Court the day before in general decided remove a bot that had nothing to do with us: apparently, when drafting a claim in Roskomnadzor, they simply entered the [phrase] "Eye of God" in the search for the telegram - and entered [into the complaint] the first left bot they came across, which we copied ... In the end, the verdict only really said about the removal of this fake.


And suddenly our channel disappears during the day. Allegedly, "for violating the Telegram rules," they deleted the channel, the technical support chat and the flood device, the admin chat and the bot - as I understand it, they simply cleaned everything that was created from my account.

Moreover, such a moment was specially chosen to kill everything as much as possible: [command] Telegram turned off the bot before the weekend so that I could not get through to them. And even deleted it so that it was on my account that both the channel and the chats continued to work - this so that I would not notice anything for as long as possible! Right now I see people slowly leaving the channel.

- Have you tried to contact the Telegram team?

- There were no official statements from them. When we [on the same Friday] started launching clones of our official bot, we tried to duplicate it under different names: "Roskomnadzor" or "Hello, Telegram!" But they cleaned everything, everything, about a couple of thousand bots in two or three hours. Moreover, it can be seen that they were removed manually: some bots flew away instantly - so quickly that they did not even have time to turn on - and some managed to work for 10-15 minutes, as if Telegram employees were leaving for the toilet at that moment.


- What will you do?

- It's a shame about Telegram: I never expected that they could take and simply delete everything for no reason. I’ll probably have to leave now if they don’t answer for some time. I told them openly: let's shake hands. Remove the block at least from the channel - I will not show that you did it: I will file an appeal [to restore the account], everything is according to the rules.

If this does not happen, I am determined to leave [their site] and pour everything that I have on them - and I have a lot - to pour into the network. All their messages, all voice messages, where they tell how they leak information to everyone. And about corruption in Telegram, and about their relationship with the RKN - everything is absolutely everything. This will be a war, this will be daring. To make it clear how much Telegram as a whole does not care [about users].

- Do I understand correctly that you are going to wage a war of compromising evidence with Telegram?

- Firstly, I will simply launch my messenger - and entice a crowd of people to myself, so that later it will be simply beautiful to take it away from them. I don't see any technical problems to make the service faster. Glaz's net income now averages eight to 15 million rubles a month, and I spend huge resources from there on a new product: I create my own messenger, prepare for an attack on Telegram, do everything myself absolutely.

Now everyone is writing to me: "Zhen, let's collect all the evidence and destroy Telegram as much as possible: that it is bad, it leaks data so that everyone leaves it." I don't understand this: why should Telegram be thrown down without giving people an alternative? Or you can go out and announce: "I created my own messenger" Eye of God "- go all there, because Telegram is bad."

Telegram did not comment to Meduza on Antipov's allegations that the company is cooperating with Russian security officials and his other statements.

- Are you planning to fight for the Eye of God as a data trading project?

- Now that we are talking [July 7, 2021], the bot is working: they stopped deleting clones on Friday evening, as if they had run out of working hours. And even if they start blocking again, it will not hurt us in any way: we teach the “Eyes of God” subscribers to create their own bots and distribute them as much as possible. We have a special bot for such cloning - and now a website will also appear, where you can go and create your own bot, personally yours, which no one will ever find. We call them "franchise bots" - there are already 575 thousand of them. Before the blocking, there were 370 thousand. Why do we need to keep our bot and run and hide it when we can build a whole ecosystem that cannot be stopped at all?

"They said it was interesting to get access to the logs - who is looking for what"​

- Last week you lost Roskomnadzor is sued - why then did Telegram's execution of the court's decision on blocking become almost a surprise for you?

- It's just that no one spoke about our chats, websites and channel either in the lawsuit or in court - why are they being removed then? It turns out that the court took more powers for itself? They would say that "we also want to remove the channel, because it sets up against Russia." But no, they just silently deleted it - that's all.

- Are there any negotiations with the RKN?

“They don’t pick up the pipes, they don’t answer letters. What is the charge ( Meduza got acquainted with the screenshots of the work of one of the clones of the Eyes of God, attached to the claim, - approx. "Medusa" ) : a person throws his phone number into the bot and finds his VKontakte account. Everything. The RKN experts did not buy a subscription, so all they saw was a photo from WhatsApp and a few tags from GetContact. And the mention - without details - that the bot contains information about the address and number of the car. Wow, what secret data should be banned.

We even asked in court: who in general has complained about us for such a thing to the RKN? They say: "Ivanov Ivan Ivanovich and Fedorov Ivan Ivanovich." We even asked if it was funny - it turned out they were serious. Maybe someone was really offended - I don’t think after all that Roskomnadzor himself invented these two Ivanov.

- You seem to be the only "break-through" bot that tried to somehow "legalize" after the first massive blocking of such resources that Roskomnadzor arranged in March. Did not help?

- I was told that it was an order against us. They wrote to a person from my team that "people who are more serious than the ILV are pressing on us" and that it will "be hard for us to breathe." Then I thought about people who want me to share with them. And I accepted help from them. Nobody needs the "Eye of God" as income, but for a long time already everyone told me directly that it would be very interesting to get access to the logs: who is looking for what. There were offers to buy both a bot and just buy searches for people, including people with specific IDs - for 10 million a month, 20 million a month.

- Some negotiators approached you, it turns out?

- A lot of people came up with the proposal “to solve all the questions and problems”. They call from everywhere, from "siloviks" to the "ILK administration" and even the "presidential administration" - and offer to "solve everything." "We are law enforcement officers interested in your developments." "We are from the AP, we need to look at the data on some people." We do not agree to such meetings - and it is impossible to say who it is actually calling.

At some point, people came to us with a proposal to "solve problems" who could really solve them, because they created them: they wrote complaints about us in Visa and Mastercard that we were allegedly engaged in activities related to terrorists - and that it is necessary to revoke the license from [payment aggregator] Robokassa for the fact that they work with such "terrorist projects". As a result, Robokassa was blocked for us.

- And what kind of people?

- Large Russian companies appeared, funds that said: “That's it, we are ready to invest in you, Zhen. Give us 40% - and we will give you legal, financial, partner assistance. " More precisely, I cannot say so far that there are no big problems. These are not people, but companies that are known to many people.

Pavel Vrublevsky (photo from Instagram)

- I have already heard this story, albeit in a different retelling: Meduza's interlocutor, who is aware of the conflict between Glaz and the ILV, said that people from the FSB could also claim your business, with the filing of which pressure could be exerted on the bot - including the information campaign of the telegram channel BadBank, attributed the owner of the ChronoPay processing company Pavel Vrublevsky. The channel has long been at war with payment systems that cooperate with online casinos and "punch", but the partnership between "Eyes" and Robokassa has devoted a whole series posts that supposedly led to sever your relationship with the aggregator.

- There were no FSB agents. And BadBank had a war not with me, but with VTB. ( BadBank channel really often criticizes for work with the darknet payment aggregators, whose acquiring bank - that is, the processor of card payments - advocates namely VTB, - approx. "Medusa". ) Vrublevsky, if he really stands behind BadBank, ran into VTB [and their partners Robokassa], but he was told that "The Eye of God are great guys - we will not press them." And he was like: "How so!" And he began to attack this side.

Pavel Vrublevsky denies that he wrote complaints about the "Eye of God" in Visa or Mastercard, and rejects the version about his connection with the attack on the bot coordinated by the FSB officers.
The entrepreneur denies the connection with the BadBank channel. “I fully support the channel's activities - with my heart and soul with it, but I have never confirmed that I am running it,” Vrublevsky told Meduza.
Vrublevsky, nevertheless, is well aware of the circumstances of the public conflict between BadBank, VTB and Robokassa. “Antipov correctly describes this conflict to you: the channel had a problem not so much with the“ Eye of God ”as with the fact that Robokassa got into the channel with statements that the bot's business was acting legally. But the channel did not complain to either Visa or Mastercard - here Yevgeny is wrong, ”Vrublevsky clarifies in a conversation with Meduza.
Vrublevsky considers the version of his joint attack with the FSB officers on the "Eye of God" far-fetched. “BadBank really wrote a lot about the situation, but then Kommersant came out with a whole series of articles on the same topic - and they were written on the basis of both BadBank materials, and, probably, some power sources of the journalists themselves - this is the origin of the idea of "FSB intervention". And when, in the wake of the publication, it turned out that Robokassa and VTB simply did not take into account that on March 1 [2021] the legislation regarding personal data and similar bots was tightened, they really had to turn off the "Eye". "
Vrublevsky tells the story of people connected with BadBank who - in Antipov's description - came to him with a proposal to “solve problems” in a different way: “Nobody offered anyone to“ solve ”anything - the situation was different. Some of the BadBank channel enthusiasts - there are actually a lot of them - privately analyzed FZ 152-FZ about personal data - and found a certain set of recommendations for the "Eyes of God" on how to work correctly. The “eye” at first dismissed them, but then someone arrested Antipov for two days - and it is still unclear who and why - and he abruptly tried to fulfill the recommendations that were given to him. But soon after the arrest, all these ideas went into the furnace anyway. "

The source of the article is the website of the media recognized in the Russian Federation as an Inoagent

Continued below

 

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“We have distributed subscriptions to journalists - and put their requests on the monitor "​

- Your project is not the first to be blocked for violating the law on personal data: before that Telegram at the request of the RKN "Turned off" bots "Archangel", Smart_SearchBot, mailsearch bot. How do you think this whole war will end?

- It will not affect me in any way, because I am already engaged in the following projects. In general, they will lag behind everyone, I think. Please note that everyone was chased very resonantly, but not a single criminal case was announced. There was no such thing on TV? And when all this finally happens - and this political order will pass, everyone will be left behind. There is no point in torturing the market endlessly. Moreover, now it is clear that these are blows blindly: "Chimera", "Archangel" - completely harmless bots.

- Some of those who have come under attack are trying to "legalize"?

- As far as I know, no. [Bot for "breaking through"] AVinfo, as I know from mutual friends, is generally going to go into work on checking legal entities: it cannot cope [with the changes]. They weren't ready - they didn't have a channel or a website - and when their bot was removed, people just lost it. And they were unable to return even 70% of the audience.

- What do the market think about the version that this is all just an instinctive reaction of the system to Bellingcat's investigation of Navalny's poisoning?

- If we talk not only about telegram bots, but about the “breakthrough” market as a whole, then yes: Navalny influenced, who said in his video that the Russian special services themselves drain passports and tickets. And then a check began on this topic.

When I was sitting [during interrogation] in the Investigative Committee, they told me: “Zhenek, you understand what the situation is - one day a general summons us all and shows us the“ Eye of God ”:“ Look - see, my mail? ”We see. “There is a leaked Sasha320 password - this is my password. Put Antipov in prison. He just hacked me. "

- Have you ever been asked by the siloviki how it is possible to collect such a story from the data of the "breakthrough", to identify so many military chemists and employees of special services?

- Never. They, like Voldemort, are afraid of this story.

“So the people from the poisoning team are People-Who-You-Can't-Be-Named?”

- Yes, this topic was never really touched upon.

- You are in an interview with Forbes mentioned that thanks to the data on the search queries of the bot users, you know who investigated the poisoning of Navalny.

- They showed the FSB's number in that YouTube video - and everyone started punching it with us. Seven thousand struck. But we can take this person's phone - and see in the bot who was looking for him during the month before the video was published. These will be the people associated with the investigation. But we only installed the left accounts in this way - there people are not fools, they don't sit with avatars.

- Are you really like this writes Forbes, in a special presentation "The Eyes of God" for the public sector, demonstrated these results and declared that they are ready to assist in the fight against foreigners?

- No, this was not, here they have an inaccuracy ( in the version of the presentation “Ecosystems of Big Data Analysis and Visualization Solutions,” which Antipov handed over to Meduza, there is really no mention of such a project, - approx. "Medusa" ) ... In general, it is rather stupid to go to the state with the news "and I know who was looking for Navalny's poisoners!" They know it without me.

- But you, for some reason, have access to search in the "Eye" for foreign citizens banned ?

- There is an article about espionage - I could be tied to it the most. The worst thing is not when a Russian punches a Russian, but if a foreigner finds a Russian police officer in the bot - in such a situation, you can hang espionage and treason on me.

Slide from the presentation of the "Eye of God" project for the public sector
Courtesy of Evgeny Antipov

- Have you tried to somehow analyze the log data - who is accessing the service and why?

“This is the secret function of the Eyes of God: I have much more data than I think. Our neural network scans [user requests], and then moderators manually check its work.

We even tried to divide all [who turn to the bot] the siloviki into the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs - it was just interesting whether they were different or not. Are FSB agents looking for some particularly secret people that EMV agents are not looking for? It turned out that they are not looking for anything super-secret. And all the EMV agents in general actively knock girls out of the metro - well, they secretly shoot them and throw them at the bot. There are very few serious [work] inquiries and a lot of personal ones.

We took escorts on the monitor. These are the most specific: they are looking for their clients. And their clients - MPs - are looking for other such girls. Sometimes you can clearly see how first a deputy punches some girl, then she starts looking for five or six deputies, and then [about the novel] someone was told - and the journalists are already starting this search.

Or journalists. We gave them subscriptions to get hooked on the "Eye of God" - and put all their requests on the monitor. And now you can see who is making what requests now: about whom they are looking for information. Often this means that a person has done something - and tomorrow they will write about him.

- Can you predict law enforcement investigations? To whom will they come with a search tomorrow?

- Yes. With the help of this system, you can even see who the security forces are currently investigating.

- Was there anything else that you planned for the bot, but didn't manage to implement?

- I started to develop one function, but got distracted. In our bot, you can drop voice messages - for example, tell the bot the number of the car that you saw on the road. And we identified all these voices. And I can bring my smartphone [to the sounding speech], use the bot to write everything down - and your telegram account will be displayed for me.

"Let's take your phone, punch it in the bot"​

- Why did you at some point decide to become the public face of the "Eyes of God", which was originally an anonymous project?

- When I realized that the “Eye of God” as a brand is easy to kill - and I will have nothing left, not a single mention of who and what actually did in the project. Many tried to dissuade me, but I decided to step [forward] in order to reveal my name at least a little. And if I now create the next project, it will already have a slightly easier and faster start.

- After blocking the "Eyes of God" in March, you announced that now you will provide services only to those who are legally allowed to work with such data. How does it work?

- We have introduced identification [of users by phone number] so that clients are not just anonymous telegram. It turns out that we register a person - and he signs it all with an electronic agreement.

Also "Eye of God" as wrote Forbes, banned access to search for foreign citizens, provided people with an opportunity to delete information about themselves from the bot's database and moved some of the servers from Belarus to Russia.

- At the same time, experts still convinced that the bot uses, among other things, the merged databases; providing such information to an end user violates the law.

- We no longer have such data. I won't lie: at the beginning of 2020, I realized that it was impossible to just download databases from the Internet, and I went for a trick: I transferred them all to the first free domain I came across, which I registered with a British company, and began to buy them from myself. There were the usual holey old databases that are lying around on the forums and which you somehow consider prohibited.

But now I don't work like that: now every line of data in the bot is collected either by parsing [open sources], or from special services like the Solaris [database aggregator for checking contractors]. I can answer for every line.

- How do you get mobile numbers or addresses in your bot then? Such information can not be in "white" databases or state information systems.

- We, as a search engine, only carry out very complex search queries. For example, the traffic police base leaked. We additionally downloaded all base "Russian Union of Auto Insurers", which contains the name, patronymic, one letter of the last name, date of birth and car number. We recognize the region by the number of the car - and then in VKontakte and leaks from there we find the page of the person in question and his phone number.

Let's take your phone, punch it in a bot - and I'll tell you where it comes from about each line of search results. So, here you have possible names from GetContact. By your mails - and they are most likely found from "VKontakte" - you can find your account on the Facebook site.

- And the bot also sees my Skype username, all my emails and even "leaked passwords" to them - you can't get that with parsing.

- Well, you can drive your phone into Yandex, and the same thing will happen. Please - found an announcement on the forum where you left your mail. Now we will find your "VKontakte" in the same way. And Skype is generally interesting: the company has site , where you can drive in someone's phone - and find a login. We do not buy any databases using [leaked] passwords - we use the service leakcheck.io ... Incidentally, this is the only bot that RKN unlocked back.

- Your competitors in the data trading market spoke Forbes magazine that at one time even telephone billing could be bought from you.

- I would never have connected this in my life: firstly, it is illegal, and secondly, billing costs 40 thousand [rubles]. If I started to trade like this, subscribers would simply ask: "Are you a fool?" Who will buy this in a bot, where the "subscription" button costs 250 rubles? Just take and put the billing button next to it - for 40 thousand?

Eye of God Marketing Materials
Courtesy of Evgeny Antipov

- You site now looks respectable enough - as if you are not a scandalous decision for business at all. Is that what you intended?

- Initially, I had a plan not to sell all this at retail, but to create mechanisms for collecting data - and sell whole large beautiful arrays to the business. I recently received a letter from the Lukoil marketing agency, back in November [2020] they wrote to me from TASS, from banks, from "Yandex.Buses" - the mail is actually inundated with letters. ( Antipov provided Meduza with screenshots of emails with business proposals from these companies - there are no letters from Yandex among them, but there is a message from a former employee of the company - approx. "Medusa". ) They, apparently, find the product itself, but do not follow the news - it's good there [with RKN], it's bad. Everyone asks the same thing: is there any documentation for the connection: “Do you have an API? And then you say that there is big data - we are ready to integrate. " But I have not yet accepted any of these proposals.

“Yandex has never cooperated and would not cooperate either with the Eye of God service itself, or with any of its analogues. The purchase of personal data violates the company's principles, the company told Meduza. - We closed the Yandex.Buses service in January 2019, long before the creation of the Eye of God service. The employee in question himself indicates that he is an ex-employee of Yandex and speaks for another company. " Lukoil and TASS had not responded to Meduza's inquiries by the time this interview was published.

- Why would your service be needed, for example, by Lukoil?

- They have [loyalty] cards - that is, they have collected a database of customers' phone numbers. And they need to link these numbers with social media pages - to conduct mailings, organize promotions. I can give out not just a VKontakte page, but a special identifier, which can be used to send mailings within the social network.

- Do your lawyers intend to prove to RKN or Telegram that the Eye of God does not break the law?

- We just need to take the channel back - we need it for a strong launch of a new product. We wanted to speak in the spirit of “that’s what great fellows we are, we are leaving the gray search process for a whiter, more serious one for business” - but we were deprived of air by breaking the channel.

I have an idea [of a service for monitoring] a social rating - such an analogue immediately to SPARK-Interfax for checking legal entities, and Kro-Inform for checking individuals. The system scans for us all social networks, all sites with ratings and ratings. We enter the name of your employee, click "monitor" - and find out if there are any fines on him. Or we enter the name of your child's nanny - and on all social networks we see if she is in groups of 18+ or other bad ones. And the system will constantly monitor the right person.

Just like with cars - we always check before buying whether there are fines on it, whether it had an accident, whether it was pledged, broken or not. It's exactly the same here.

The source of the article is the website of the media recognized in the Russian Federation as an Inoagent

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«Я всем в здании СК раздавал бесплатный доступ»​

— От бота не начали отписываться, когда вы ввели аутентификацию по номеру телефона? Ведь если последовательно соблюдать закон, то придется и с правоохранительными органами этой информацией делиться — по запросу.

— Вообще не было оттока: людям в целом все равно оказалось. Мне предъявляли, что «вот, ты берешь телефоны, будешь кому-то данные сливать». Кому интересны эти ваши данные? Мои клиенты — это люди, которые проверяют звонки с незнакомых номеров или, заскучав в пробке, ищут контакты понравившейся девушки, [загрузив ее фотографию в «Глаз Бога»]. Этим людям разве должно быть страшно?

— Неужели Роскомнадзор не выставил никаких требований по отчетности перед МВД и ФСБ?

— Нет. А силовики мне сами сказали, что, если понадобится, запрос они будут делать не ко мне, а к Telegram: «И они нам должны будут предоставить переписку твоего клиента с ботом». После обыска [в апреле 2021 года] меня отвезли на разговор в Следственный комитет. И я услышал там от их сотрудников, которые в праве шарят: «Когда нужно узнать, кто кого ищет в боте, мы запрашиваем не вас, а Telegram: у нас к ним больше доверия. Вы-то можете что-то подмешать к ответу на запрос, загрязнить данные — а они так не будут делать: там люди с репутацией сидят. В Telegram мы возьмем все, что нужно, от и до».

— Обыски у вас прошли вскоре после массового удаления из Telegram ботов по «пробиву» — это была одна и та же кампания?

— Апрельский обыск оказался никак не связан с ботом. Когда они нашли на компьютере чат «Глаза Бога», спросили: «Что, в боте сидишь, закон нарушаешь?» Я подумал, что подкалывают. Но пока меня не привезли в СК, никто из оперативников так и не поверил, что бот — мой.

Потом я всем подписки раздавал в здании СК — бесплатный доступ. Всем, с кем один на один общался. Когда разговор завязывался, спрашивали: «А что, правда ищет хорошо? Дай посмотреть». Я и показывал. Я и так делюсь с органами: когда они мне пишут со своей служебной почты [с такой просьбой], мы предоставляем [бесплатный доступ].


Интервью Федора Сироша, адвоката Антипова, в день обыска. 8 апреля 2021 года
NnYourTime

— И часто так общаетесь с силовиками?

— Вообще разговоров много было — и на неофициальных встречах, и даже во время обысков. У меня ведь и до [появления] «Глаза» были обыски — всего три, получается. Когда общаюсь с ними, все с уважением относятся — все видят, что я делаю. У меня нет секретов: я максимально открыт. Если идет диалог, я не буду молчать — так себя разрекламирую, что меня еще и на работу позовут.

— А что за «неофициальные встречи» с силовиками?

— В публичном месте могут подойти и сесть рядом. Таких историй полно: когда я вышел с интервью у Baza, то сел в кафе в «Рэдиcсоне» рядом — и прямо там сидели сотрудники, которых я видел на обыске. И так всегда.

— Это такая странная наружка?

— Я не спрашивал, как они там оказались.

— Вас после обыска отпустили со всей техникой — это большая редкость. На рынке торговли данными после этого не заговорили, что вы начали сотрудничать?

— Многие писали тогда в чат в духе: «Отпустили с обыска и даже не заблокировали — все, доверия больше нет». Я никогда не понимал таких людей и так им и отвечал: «А мне в целом не плевать ли на вас? Если мне нужно будет рассказать, как кто-то из вас нарушает закон, убивает людей, отыскав их в моем боте, я это сделаю. Моя цель — делать продукт полезный, а не скрывать ваши преступления и получать за это по шее».

— После обыска вы рассказали Baza, что сервис сделал невозможным «пробив» сотрудников МВД и ФСБ. А как это технически возможно? API передали ФСБ?

— Меня тогда неправильно поняли. Мы просто стали скрывать слова «ФСБ» и «МВД» в выдаче облака тегов, которые бот берет из GetContact. Например, вы знаете личный номер «Иванова Ивана Ивановича из ФСБ города Москвы» — если вы начнете проверять номер через мой бот, то в разделе «возможные имена» слово «ФСБ» будет скрыто. И GetContact с NumВuster! тоже это теперь скрывают.

— Этим ограничилось? Вам же настолько же легко замониторить, как журналист ищет в боте какого-нибудь отравителя или коррупционера, и предупредить кого надо о готовящемся расследовании.

— Мне кажется, так можно продавить любой серьезный бизнес. Если власть потребует, «узнаешь о расследовании против наших — отзвонись», ей никто не откажет в этом. Но ко мне таких требований не было.

— Два собеседника из сферы «пробива» рассказали «Медузе», что после апрельского обыска и начала давления на «Глаз Бога» «очень круто колыхнуло рынок» и «позашкварились сервисы» и игроки серого рынка данных, которые с вами сотрудничали — якобы потому, что данные о ваших партнерах попали к силовикам.

— Если мне предъявляют за слив коллег и партнеров, могу только сказать, что все эти люди сидят с VPN и с левого аккаунта — как раз чтобы не допускать ситуаций, когда «приходят к Васе Пупкину и узнают мои данные». Но в целом странно за такое обвинять: я же живу открыто, не скрываюсь, у меня дом танками не окружен. Если бы ко мне пришли домой с паяльником и потребовали всех слить, то, наверное, все бы забрали. Если бы было что забирать.

— Один из собеседников, близкий к рынку торговли данными, рассказывает, что у вас едва ли не несколько десятков благодарственных грамот от разных силовых структур…

— Да, первая была получена в 2016 году, когда я создал что-то вроде быстрого логгера для сотрудников ФСКН. Были консультации, были грамоты — правда, на них нет никаких QR-кодов, поэтому, как по мне, это мусор. А вот когда занимался криптовалютой и чуть позже «Глазом», то получал бумажные [грамоты] уже чисто для себя: приятно было оставить какой-то след, к тому же это бумаги, с которыми в суде можно доказать, что ты не враг своей стране.

Я уже говорил, что бесплатно предоставляю доступ к «Глазу» силовикам. Но это только на месяц или три, а если попросят продлить, запрашиваю у них уже благодарственную грамоту на юрлицо.

— На рынке рассказывают, что вы в какой-то момент сделали ставку именно на свои знакомства среди силовиков, а не на последовательный комплаенс — и что хороших результатов это не дало.

— Не совсем. Это, наверное, оценка со стороны зрителя. Просто в какой-то момент посыпалось сразу все: мне нужно было держать систему в рабочем состоянии, параллельно реагируя на вопросы силовиков и советы адвокатов. Возможно, я неправильно расставил приоритеты в этот момент, но окончательной ставки я не делал ни на силовиков, ни на «идеальную» легализацию: команду дорогих юристов, короче говоря, не нанимал. Делал как мог — и мне кажется, сделал все верно.

— Вы скинули мне презентацию, которая явно предназначена для продвижения вашего сервиса в госсекторе.

— Я всегда говорил, что не против делать проекты для власти — у меня даже был готов офигенный прототип для полиции. Берем полицейский планшет или просто смартфон, наводим его на поток машин — и прямо над ними загораются госномера и сведения про неоплаченную страховку или штрафы. По крайней мере iPhone X за секунду считывал полсотни машин. Мы все это сделали — просто не знаем, куда отнести, чтобы людям это официально дать.

— Вы в итоге о чем-то договорились?

— Я так и не понял, как мне с ними [силовыми структурами] взаимодействовать, кому писать — они все какие-то балаболы, вот без обид.

Просто создать, например, инструмент, определяющий IP-адрес, или сниффер какой-то для, так скажем, узкого круга — да, получалось, и эти продукты помогали. Но официальное сотрудничество наладить не получилось ни разу. Все заканчивалось тем, что мне присылали бумаги какого-то тендера — мол, «хочешь такое взять?» — а там написан такой бред непонятный! То ли «на отвали» писали техническое задание, то ли я слишком глуп.

«Многие владельцы черных форумов — мои бывшие партнеры»​

— Вы говорите, что обыска у вас было уже три — с чем были связаны первые два?

— С криптовалютой. У меня ее было много, я даже делал свою биржу — и был связан с крупными и очень известными криптокошельками. По сути просто менял битки на рубли в криптовалютных обменниках — в частности, на 24paybank.net. Сдавал биткоины, а себе на карту «Сбербанка» получал рубли. И мне каждый раз так «везло», что это оказывались не просто рубли, а наркоденьги.

Как это происходило: полиция делала контрзакупку — приносила 10 тысяч рублей на одну из площадок [в даркнете] и покупала наркотики. И вот я прихожу в обменник со своими битками — и в тот же момент там объявляется этот наркомагазин с «полицейскими» рублями. И я их забираю себе, не зная о происхождении денег, а им отдаю биткоины.

Так я оказываюсь конечным лицом, которое на свою карту получает эту сумму. Наши органы это установили, но потом приписали мне вообще все деньги из этого обменника — чуть ли не три-четыре миллиона долларов. У меня был обыск сначала московской, потом ставропольской, потом снова московской полиции.

— А в апреле почему к вам домой пришли? Пресс-секретарь вашего проекта Сергей Каленик говорил, что следственные действия тогда были связаны не с «Глазом Бога», а с запрещенным форумом финансовых мошенников DarkMoney, к которому вы «каким-то непонятным образом имели отношение».

— В апреле мне дверь вынесли за секунду: спецназ с автоматами, на допрос везли на 15 машинах, в кабинете было человек 40, в наручниках я просидел часов 20. [В постановлении об обыске] было указано очень много статей — и похищение, и кража, и «организация преступного сообщества», и причинение вреда здоровью.

Меня «назначили» администратором форума DarkMoney — всего вот этого даркнетовского, где заказные убийства, обнал, пробивы, наркотики. Но пришли по поводу какого-то одного конкретного похищения, связанного с форумом. Короче говоря, я обвинялся в том, что организовал преступный сговор, собрал толпу людей, мы кого-то похитили, побили и что-то у него отняли — там в документах была фамилия пострадавшего указана. А вообще раскручивать дело хотели до конца — что я единственный владелец DarkMoney и много чего еще.

— Как вас вообще связали с форумом?

— Доказательств у них толком никаких не было — меня же сразу отпустили, технику вернули, сделали свидетелем. Не притягивался я никак. Я занимался биткоин-кошельками, а многие текущие владельцы черных форумов — это мои бывшие партнеры. Но я-то сейчас максимально на свету: большие цифры, машина хорошая, много недвижимости — и все это растет и растет. Может быть, поэтому и была проверка.

В документах, которые мне показывали, была реально страница форума — и квадратиками обведены ники. И меня, тыкая в имена ручкой, спрашивали, кого я отсюда знаю. Я узнал только двух-трех — это были люди, которым я когда-то предлагал сделать свой мессенджер, аналог Telegram.

— Вы еще в школе стали программировать: журнал Forbes уточнял, что начали с вирусов, потом перешли на софт для организации маркетинговых и финансовых пирамид, а к 2016-му занялись пирамидой уже криптовалютной. Люди из какого периода вашей жизни так заинтересовали силовиков?

— Это актуальные люди: не прошлое, а настоящее. Мы общались по нескольким проектам. Когда только стала популярна криптовалюта, везде стали появляться юные маленькие миллионеры — дети, у которых было до хрена денег, чтобы тратить налево и направо. Я [под такую аудиторию] придумал приложение типа Uber, через которое можно вызвать себе личную охрану — и чтобы это было прям красиво. Собрал этот сервис — и попросил ребят, чьи ники засветились [в документах следствия], свести меня с ЧОПом. Просто эти мои знакомые были из якобы детективного агентства [DaVinci], а я в этой сфере никого не знал.

И еще, как я уже говорил, была идея сделать свой мессенджер, который не был бы привязан к телефону или почте, а только к конкретному смартфону. И я искал партнеров, которые смогли бы его продвигать.

Интерфейс приложения для вызова личной охраны
Архив Евгения Антипова

— Forbes писал, что «детективное агентство» DaVinci, на которое вы ссылаетесь, — это на самом деле «банда из даркнета», которая с конца 2020 года администрирует тот самый форум DarkMoney. И что вы с этой группой тесно связаны: даже аккаунт под ником DaVinci на DarkMoney заблокировали всего через несколько часов после обыска у вас.

— Да, DaVinci — это как раз одно из имен той штучки, по делу о которой ко мне приходили. Детективное агентство, которое может кого-то поискать, пробить, сфоткать. У них был аккаунт на [форуме] DarkMoney. Изначально нас связали общие знакомые по бирже: DaVinci хотели сделать себе сайт — я помог. Бесплатно: «Жень, какие-то услуги будут нужны — скажешь». Потом они пропали, а через полгода снова написали: «Женя, не хочешь ли сделать мессенджер?» Ни фига мы его не сделали, конечно. А потом я сам попросил их помочь с ЧОПами для охранного агентства.

— То есть у вас было как минимум три совместных проекта? Еще Игорь Бедеров из компании «Интернет-розыск» утверждает, что «Глаз Бога» изначально продвигали на теневых форумах именно с аккаунта под ником DaVinci.

— Бедеров все время меня пытается связать с даркнетом: якобы я связан с DaVinci, а DaVinci связан с даркнетом и едва ли не с организацией заказных убийств. Но мы с ними после того случая [обыска] на связь не выходили.

А про «Глаз Бога» они [DaVinci], естественно, знали — и пользовались им. У них на форуме целая ветка была. Они мне забесплатно делали одолжения: размещали рекламу «Глаза Бога» на форуме в закрепленных ветках — где рекламные места покупаются.

— Благотворительность в даркнете — вы серьезно?

— Да это была просто маленькая маркетинговая хитрость с их стороны. Мы создали «Глаз» в январе, а рекламировать они его начали только летом — и получается, что у них тоже был собственный интерес: они его пиарили как «один из продуктов их команды» — типа я в их команде. Мол, вон они какие молодцы, делают такие офигенные продукты. Взаимная реклама такая.

Беседовала Лилия Яппарова
Редактор: Валерий Игуменов

Источник статьи, сайт СМИ признанного в РФ Иноагентом

 

[Детективное агентство Одесса]

The interview turned out to be very interesting.

 

[David Mamedov]

I am only now learning about this platform. Very interesting.

 

[Детективное агентство Израиль.]

«Готовлюсь к атаке на Telegram»

А не слишком ли это?

 

[Детективное агентство Израиль.]

The interview turned out to be very interesting.

Agree.

 

[Alexander Konovalenko.]

Yes, very interesting.

 

[НСК-СБ]

Yes, very interesting.

And about Telegram too!

 

[Частный детектив Азербайджан]

The interview turned out to be very interesting.