Theme for discussion ...

[Группа К]

And why did you get Alexander to deny something .... it’s not clear ... I said that NPV is not only collecting information on civil and criminal cases ... After all, apart from this, the BL is also carried out search activities, other actions regulated by the Law, which in principle have nothing to do with the activities of the bar and notary public ... and that’s all ... And, among other things, the LAWYER is not a subject of the ENFORCEMENT system ... see Article 3 of the Law on the Bar .... everything is written there ... FEDERAL LAW "ON LAWYER ACTIVITY AND LAWYER
IN RUSSIAN FEDERATION"

The fact that you deny the relevance of the detective to the law enforcement system, I concluded based on your own messages. Well, I just got this opinion. And if I'm wrong, please excuse me, of course

But here’s what you write - “BHD is not only collecting information” and right there “BH is being carried out and search activities”
In my opinion, the collection of information includes such a private search event as the search for information and documents. Or am I wrong:?:

The second one. Not a single law on advocacy Andrey! You are saying that Lawyer is not a subject of the law enforcement system. I would agree with you, but I was taught that advocacy is part of the law enforcement system. Together with the bar, the following entities are present here: the Prosecutor's Office, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Emergencies, tax and customs services, bailiffs, special forces, internal troops, the bar, notaries, various non-governmental human rights organizations (NPOs), security agencies, and ! also citizens (self-defense and self-defense).

Perhaps you and I are simply “hostages” of different schools. Yes there:!: Law enforcement did not exist before, There was one legal activity - that’s the point.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

I think this dispute is pointless))))) I just need to study the Laws ... (by the way, they are given by me) and that’s all .... and my reasons for regulating something ... It’s also desirable by the Laws ....)))) Here when there will be regulation with reference to specific regulatory documents, then another thing .... And so- "who taught whom and when" is not an argument)))))) .....
Law enforcement incidentally ...
Law enforcement_activity activity is a type of state activity that is carried out with the aim of protecting the right by specially authorized bodies by applying legal measures of influence in strict accordance with the law and in strict compliance with the established procedure.
According to Russian law, in the course of law enforcement, law enforcement agencies, in order to prevent offenses, may restrict the rights and freedoms of law enforcement entities to the extent established by law [1].
Signs of law enforcement:
carried out using legal measures
carried out in strict accordance with the law
carried out by specially authorized bodies

 

[Андрей Захаров]

With regards to the phrase- "BH and search activities are carried out" .... Search activities in accordance with the BH and OD Law mean the search for missing persons .... and see the list of other services ... besides collecting information on criminal and civil matters ...)))))))

 

[Группа К]

I think this dispute is pointless))))) I just need to study the Laws ... (by the way, they are given by me) and that’s all .... and my reasons for regulating something ... It’s also desirable by the Laws ....)))) Here when there will be regulation with reference to specific regulatory documents, then another thing .... And so- "who taught whom and when" is not an argument)))))) .....
Law enforcement incidentally ...
Law enforcement_activity activity is a type of state activity that is carried out with the aim of protecting the right by specially authorized bodies by applying legal measures of influence in strict accordance with the law and in strict compliance with the established procedure.
According to Russian law, in the course of law enforcement, law enforcement agencies, in order to prevent offenses, may restrict the rights and freedoms of law enforcement entities to the extent established by law [1].
Signs of law enforcement:
carried out using legal measures
carried out in strict accordance with the law
carried out by specially authorized bodies

This argument reminds me of the "battlefield of endless ideas of the mind" - (And Kant). It is impossible all the time to refer to the law and established (albeit by the majority) orders!
Let me give you a simple example: do everyone follow the rules of the road? :?: No, of course, not all. Because the main thing is not to abide by the rules, and not to prevent others from fulfilling them (author I: D)
Another example. In the second year, we, young cadets, were prepared for independent flights. One of the most difficult exercises was landing on a glide path. The complexity of this element was to smoothly change the height (decrease) of the aircraft depending on the distance to the edge of the "strip". Among the cadets, it sounded like "keep your nose to the point." This is the glide path. So here. Among us was an excellent student - Volodya Abramtsev. He always did everything at five, went to the red diploma. But it turned out that in heaven and on earth the concepts of "excellent" have a different nature. On the ground, the correct glide path is a theory according to which the approach to the glide path occurs at an altitude of 600 meters, above the long-distance drive there should be 200 meters, above the near drive 60 and so on until it touches. Volodya did just that. I went to the glide path for 600 meters, let out the chassis, flaps and ... flew on. When approaching a long-distance drive, it sharply decreased to 200 meters, then again flew straight. When approaching the neighbor, it again sharply decreased to 60 meters and then again flew straight. In general, despite the fact that Volodya was an excellent pupil - he was no longer allowed to fly to the plane and was later written off as a "no-go".
What am I saying all this for? You can, of course, refer to laws, to the constitution. But in addition, we should not forget about the scientific works and research of those scientists, on the basis of works (dissertations, textbooks, interpretations) those same laws are subsequently written.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Of course ... we can refer to scientists ... but this does not abolish the realities ... and the existence of already adopted laws that must be respected ... regardless of whether we like them or not .... something like that. ... otherwise, it’s not about any “law enforcement activity”, that is. activities aimed at observance of the rule of law (as it is called-LAW protective))) and there can be no question at all))))) And what then can be a "law enforcement" who does not take into account existing and real ones Laws, i.e. rules of law ....))))))

 

[Группа К]

Well, I'll try to refer to the law. Closest to the laws (normative acts) is the court decision (non-normative act). But what if not a court decision (sentence) can serve a detective, lawyer, parties as a guide to action?
And here's what:!:

How does the court decide the case? According to Art. 194 Code of Civil Procedure. Section 6. Decisions of a judge according to my inner conviction guided by law and professional justice ,

And I do not take Article 71 of the Code of Criminal Procedure (Assessment of evidence),

But even from the Code of Civil Procedure it follows that when resolving disputes, one should not be based only on laws, Andrei. And you need to consider your own opinion, too. This Codex says, not me

A detective as well as a lawyer, a notary, an investigator, a prosecutor - subjects of law enforcement - this is what scientific jurists are inclined to do.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

For those who really want to "participate" in law enforcement .... without becoming a recognized "law enforcer" .... And these opportunities are provided by the Laws to anyone who wants .... with that for a fee)))) Not taxable by any taxes and not declared anywhere actually .... (including in the version mentioned by Robert, who suggested "laying" the burden of disclosing the "wood grouse" on the BH, which relies on the state for this reward)))))) But BH in this case is also not mentioned ... just like BH ....)))))
Federal Law of 08/12/1995 N 144-ФЗ (as amended on 06/29/2015) "On the operational-search activity"
Article 17. Assistance of citizens to bodies carrying out operational investigative activities

Individuals may, with their consent, be involved in the preparation or conduct of operational investigative measures while maintaining, at their request, confidentiality of assistance to the bodies carrying out operational investigative activities, including under a contract. These persons are obliged to keep secret the information that became known to them during the preparation or conduct of operational-search measures, and are not entitled to provide deliberately false information to these authorities.
Bodies carrying out operational investigative activities may conclude contracts with adult capable persons regardless of their citizenship, nationality, gender, property, official and social status, education, membership in public associations, attitude to religion and political beliefs.
Bodies conducting operational investigative activities are prohibited from using confidential assistance under the contract of deputies, judges, prosecutors, lawyers, clergy and authorized representatives of officially registered religious associations.

Article 18. Social and legal protection of citizens contributing to bodies engaged in operational-search activities

Persons contributing to the agencies conducting operational investigative activities are protected by the state.
The state guarantees to persons who have expressed their consent to assist under the contract bodies carrying out operational investigative activities, the fulfillment of their obligations stipulated by the contract, including guaranteeing legal protection related to the lawful fulfillment of the public debt by the indicated persons or the duties assigned to them.
In the event of a real threat of unlawful encroachment on the life, health or property of individuals in connection with their assistance to the bodies engaged in operational-search activities, as well as members of their families and relatives, these bodies are required to take the necessary measures to prevent illegal actions, identify the perpetrators and attract them to liability provided for by the legislation of the Russian Federation.
A person from among the members of a criminal group who committed an unlawful act that did not entail grave consequences, and was brought into cooperation with the body that carries out operational investigative activities, actively contributed to the disclosure of crimes, compensated for the damage caused or otherwise made amends for the damage, is exempted from criminal liability in accordance with with the legislation of the Russian Federation.
Persons who cooperate with agencies engaged in operational-search activities, or who assisted them in solving crimes or identifying the persons who committed them, may receive remuneration and other payments. Amounts of remuneration and other payments received by these persons are not taxed and are not indicated in income statements.
Citizens cooperating under a contract with the bodies engaged in operational investigative activities as the main occupation are entitled to pension benefits in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation. The period of such cooperation is counted in the insurance period of the indicated citizens on the basis of information from the authorities engaged in operational-search activities. The procedure for the transfer of such information is determined by the head of the relevant state body, which includes operational units engaged in operational-search activities.
(part six as amended by the Federal Law of June 29, 2015 N 173-ФЗ)
(see text in previous edition)
In order to ensure the safety of persons cooperating with the bodies engaged in operational-search activities, and their family members, special measures may be taken to protect them in the manner determined by legislative and other regulatory legal acts of the Russian Federation.
In the event of the death of a person cooperating under a contract with the agencies carrying out operational investigative activities, in connection with his participation in operational investigative measures, the family of the victim and their dependents are paid a lump-sum allowance in the amount of the ten-year monetary maintenance of the deceased and in the established amount The legislation of the Russian Federation determines the pension for the loss of the breadwinner.
(as amended by Federal Law of August 22, 2004 N 122-ФЗ)
(see text in previous edition)
Upon receipt by the person cooperating under the contract with the bodies conducting operational investigative activities of injuries, injuries, concussions, injuries resulting from his participation in conducting operational investigative measures and excluding for him the possibility of further cooperation with authorities carrying out operational investigations activities, the specified person is paid a lump-sum allowance in the amount of five-year cash support and, in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation, a disability pension is assigned.
(as amended by Federal Law of August 22, 2004 N 122-ФЗ)
(see text in previous edition)
If, in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation, several grounds arise for the specified lump-sum payments in the cases established by this article, payments shall be made on one basis at the choice of the recipient.
(part ten introduced by the Federal Law of 22.08.2004 N 122-ФЗ)



Federal Law of 07.02.2011 No. 3-FZ (as amended on 07/13/2015, as amended on 12/14/2015) "On the Police" (as amended and additional, entered into force on 09/15/2015)
Article 9. Public trust and support of citizens

1. The police, in carrying out their activities, seek to ensure public confidence in themselves and the support of citizens.
2. The actions of the police should be reasonable and understandable to citizens.
3. In case of violation by the police officer of the rights and freedoms of citizens or the rights of organizations, the police shall, within the limits of their authority, take measures to restore the violated rights and freedoms. In the manner determined by the federal executive body in the field of internal affairs, the police apologize to the citizen, whose rights and freedoms were violated by the police officer, at the location (residence), work or training of the citizen in accordance with his wishes.
(as amended by the Federal Law of 02.07.2013 N 185-ФЗ)
(see text in previous edition)
4. Information discrediting the honor, dignity and business reputation of a citizen, made public by a police officer, if they are recognized as not true by a court, investigator, inquiry body or the police themselves, must be refuted in the same form in which they were made public, in possibly a short period, but not exceeding one month from the date of recognition of such information as untrue.
5. The federal executive body in the field of internal affairs conducts continuous monitoring of public opinion on the activities of the police, as well as monitoring the interaction of the police with civil society institutions. The results of this monitoring are regularly brought to the attention of state and municipal authorities, citizens through the media, the information and telecommunications network Internet.
6. Public opinion is one of the main criteria for an official assessment of police performance, determined by the federal executive body in the field of internal affairs.
7. Public councils are formed at the federal executive body in the field of internal affairs and territorial bodies, which are called upon to ensure the coordination of socially significant interests of citizens of the Russian Federation, federal bodies of state power, bodies of state power of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, local governments, public associations, human rights, religious and other organizations, including professional associations of entrepreneurs, to solve the most important issues of the police through:
1) involving citizens and public associations in the implementation of state policy in the field of public order protection, ensuring public safety and combating crime;
2) participation in the development and consideration of concepts, programs, initiatives of public associations and citizens on the most pressing issues of police activity;
3) conducting a public examination of draft federal laws and other regulatory legal acts on issues of police activity;
4) discussion of issues related to the activities of the police in the media;
5) exercising public control over the activities of the police.
8. Public councils are formed on the basis of voluntary participation in their activities of citizens of the Russian Federation, public associations and organizations in the manner established by the President of the Russian Federation.

Article 10. Interaction and cooperation

1. The police, in carrying out its activities, interacts with other law enforcement agencies, state and municipal bodies, public associations, organizations and citizens.
2. The police in the performance of their duties may use the capabilities of state and municipal bodies, public associations and organizations in the manner prescribed by the legislation of the Russian Federation.
3. The police, within the limits of their authority, provide assistance to state and municipal bodies, public associations and organizations in ensuring the protection of the rights and freedoms of citizens, compliance with the law and order, and also supports the development of civic initiatives in the field of crime prevention and law enforcement.
4. State and municipal bodies, public associations, organizations and officials shall assist the police in the performance of their duties.
5. Interaction between the police and foreign law enforcement agencies and international police organizations is carried out in accordance with international treaties of the Russian Federation.




Federal Law of 07.02.2011 No. 3-FZ (as amended on 07/13/2015, as amended on 12/14/2015) "On the Police" (as amended and additional, entered into force on 09/15/2015)
Section 13. Police Rights

1. The police shall be granted the following rights to fulfill their duties:

34) involve citizens with their consent to freelance cooperation; establish tacit cooperation with citizens who have expressed a desire to confidentially provide police assistance on a gratuitous or reimbursable basis; announce the appointment of remuneration for assistance in solving crimes and detaining the perpetrators of them, and pay it to citizens; to encourage citizens who assisted the police in fulfilling other duties assigned to them; to attract specialists of state and municipal bodies and organizations for consultations in the established manner, while retaining their wages (cash) at their main place of work (service);

And also for citizens who have expressed a desire to "help" the law enforcement authorities, there is a special Law ... [DLMURL] https://rg.ru/2014/04/04/poryadok-dok.html [/ DLMURL]
True, in the case of receiving a "remuneration" for their activities under this Law, you will have to talk with the tax))) All this is to the question of if anyone wants to "participate" in ensuring the rule of law .... In the broad sense of the word, but it’s not a law enforcement officer who is in the sovereign service .... And while there is no BH in the options described above (just like BH) either .....

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Well, I'll try to refer to the law. Closest to the laws (normative acts) is the court decision (non-normative act). But what if not a court decision (sentence) can serve a detective, lawyer, parties as a guide to action?
And here's what:!:

How does the court decide the case? According to Art. 194 Code of Civil Procedure. Section 6. Decisions of a judge according to my inner conviction guided by law and professional justice ,

And I do not take Article 71 of the Code of Criminal Procedure (Assessment of evidence),

But even from the Code of Civil Procedure it follows that when resolving disputes, one should not be based only on laws, Andrei. And you need to consider your own opinion, too. This Codex says, not me

A detective as well as a lawyer, a notary, an investigator, a prosecutor - subjects of law enforcement - this is what scientific jurists are inclined to do.

Scientists may be inclined .... But there are no rules of law that have clearly established all these positions yet ... But just the opposite .... The law does not grant or even prohibit BHs to use the status of law enforcement officials ... moreover, as rights, and obligations ... (based on the concept of STATUS) ... about which there is a direct reference to the Law .... And as for the internal conviction .... This conviction must be based and motivated by the judge on the basis of the same laws and by-laws (to which decisions made by the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation can also be attributed), which is provided, incidentally, by the same procedural legislation regarding the preparation of a narrative of any decision of a judge ... and this "motivation" should be set out in the narrative of any decision that a judge makes .. ..Something like this....

 

[Детективное агентство Тула]

Colleagues!
You have deviated greatly from the topic originally proposed for discussion!
Do private detectives need an SRO?

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Colleagues!
You have deviated greatly from the topic originally proposed for discussion!
Do private detectives need an SRO?

And what can I say ... everything has already been said regarding SRO))))))