Theme for discussion ...

[Роберт]

I think that the topic of SROs under such legislation is generally worth closing. And do not be fooled by all these provocations.

 

[Группа К]

In this case, I think it will be right to prepare the official collective message of MOD + ARD in which to express their disagreement with the initiative to create an SRO.

 

[Матушкин Андрей Николаевич]

In this case, I think it will be right to prepare the official collective message of MOD + ARD in which to express their disagreement with the initiative to create an SRO.

This is exactly what we discussed with Alexei Grigorievich.

 

[Роберт]

My principle is simple. You just need to discuss what legislation the detectives themselves need. And from this stove to dance. All that is accepted now is sheer debauchery and counter-revolution.

 

[Роберт]

It’s interesting, but Starikov will support the integration of the detective movement in law enforcement agencies and the change of legislation on detectives, focused on the effective fight against organized crime, corruption and extremism ?!

 

[Группа К]

It’s interesting, but Starikov will support the integration of the detective movement in law enforcement agencies and the change of legislation on detectives, focused on the effective fight against organized crime, corruption and extremism ?!

I agree that the detective act relates to law enforcement.
Along with the investigation, inquiry, prosecutors, courts, notaries and advocates.

In other words, I see the concept of a detective story in the balance of charges on the one hand (investigation, inquiry, prosecutor's office) and defense on the other hand (bar, notary, detective). This design fits very organically into the principle of adversarial balancing the scales of the indictment and making access to justice equal for the two parties, and not just for the prosecution

To move in this direction, detectives need to integrate into the institution of the bar

Here is my concept

 

[Группа К]

It’s interesting, but Starikov will support the integration of the detective movement in law enforcement agencies and the change of legislation on detectives, focused on the effective fight against organized crime, corruption and extremism ?!

I apologize for ignorance, but ... who is Starikov? : shock: This is the first time I hear about a detective with this last name:?

 

[Андрей Захаров]

It’s interesting, but Starikov will support the integration of the detective movement in law enforcement agencies and the change of legislation on detectives, focused on the effective fight against organized crime, corruption and extremism ?!

I agree that the detective act relates to law enforcement.
Along with the investigation, inquiry, prosecutors, courts, notaries and advocates.

In other words, I see the concept of a detective story in the balance of charges on the one hand (investigation, inquiry, prosecutor's office) and defense on the other hand (bar, notary, detective). This design fits very organically into the principle of adversarial balancing the scales of the indictment and making access to justice equal for the two parties, and not just for the prosecution

To move in this direction, detectives need to integrate into the institution of the bar

Here is my concept

All this is good of course .... Only BH is not only the collection of information on civil and criminal cases .... but also much, much more (in accordance with the Law), which has nothing to do with advocacy, and even more so with the notary public It has....

 

[Группа К]

I don’t agree, Andrey. A lawyer has the right to collect and present evidence in court (cannot secure). The detective does the same. Since a lawyer is a subject of the law enforcement system - And the professional rights of a lawyer and a detective are similar, then, therefore, the detective also belongs to the subject of the law enforcement system.

Both the attorney and the detective use evidence services, which are provided in a private, that is, independent of the state, Notary, to consolidate evidence. This circumstance is the direct relation of the Notary to Detective activity, which you deny.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

I don’t agree, Andrey. A lawyer has the right to collect and present evidence in court (cannot secure). The detective does the same. Since a lawyer is a subject of the law enforcement system - And the professional rights of a lawyer and a detective are similar, then, therefore, the detective also belongs to the subject of the law enforcement system.

Both the attorney and the detective use evidence services, which are provided in a private, that is, independent of the state, Notary, to consolidate evidence. This circumstance is the direct relation of the Notary to Detective activity, which you deny.

And why did you get Alexander to deny something .... it’s not clear ... I said that NPV is not only collecting information on civil and criminal cases ... After all, apart from this, the BL is also carried out search activities, other actions regulated by the Law, which in principle have nothing to do with the activities of the bar and notary public ... and that’s all ... And, among other things, the LAWYER is not a subject of the ENFORCEMENT system ... see Article 3 of the Law on the Bar .... everything is written there ... FEDERAL LAW "ON LAWYER ACTIVITY AND LAWYER
IN RUSSIAN FEDERATION"
Adopted by the State Duma on April 26, 2002 Approved by the Federation Council on May 15, 2002

Article 3. Advocacy and the state

1. The bar is a professional community of lawyers and, as an institution of civil society, is not included in the system of state authorities and local self-government bodies.
Something like this .... and probably we won’t argue ... it makes no sense ... You just need to read and study the Laws ... and that's it ...))))))).
and with regards to the legal profession .... specifically ....
Advocacy is the legal institution that is called upon to provide professional protection of the rights, freedoms and interests of individuals and legal entities13.
The concept of “advocacy” was legislatively enshrined only in 2002 from the moment of adoption of the Federal Law of May 31, 2002 N 63-ФЗ “On advocacy and advocacy in the Russian Federation”.
According to Art. 1 of the Law on the Bar, advocacy is qualified legal assistance provided on a professional basis by persons who have received the status of a lawyer in the manner prescribed by the Law on the Bar, to individuals and legal entities (principals) in order to protect their rights, freedoms and interests, as well as providing access to justice. Advocacy is not entrepreneurial.
The legal profession is not a state structure. However, it cannot be considered a public organization. This is due, in particular, to the fact that membership in the bar, in contrast to public associations, presupposes a higher legal education, and the implementation of professional activities is aimed at protecting the interests of members of the bar community themselves, as in other organizations, but other persons14. Strengthening the rule of law is the function of the state for which it creates the appropriate apparatus, law enforcement agencies. The legal profession cannot assist these bodies in the performance of their own functions of strengthening the rule of law, as a body independent of the state and, moreover, called to stand on the side of a citizen, and not the state pursuing that citizen. Relations between the state and the bar must be based on the principle of equal subjects.
The bar is a kind of social and legal institution of civil society. It performs both state-significant functions and tasks due to the private interest of citizens and legal entities. That is why the state ensures the principle of the independence of the bar, and also provides funding for the bar when the lawyer provides legal assistance free of charge in the manner prescribed by the law of the Russian Federation, as well as if necessary, the provision of legal premises for lawyers and means of communication in order to provide the population with access to legal aid.
Thus, advocacy is a civil society institution that exercises certain powers of the state to protect the rights, freedoms and interests of individuals and legal entities and provides access to justice through advocacy, acting on the basis of the principles of legality, independence, self-government, corporatism, and equality lawyers. This definition contains the essence of the phenomenon: the bar does not serve to protect the interests of the state or justice, but represents and defends a non-state, private interest.