The difference in KR and detective work

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

What we argue has long been spelled out in the laws of all countries.
The legislation is constantly being improved and updated, study and draw conclusions.
Take for example the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation chapter 29 updated last year.

https://www.newsfiber.com/p/s/h?v=EOsPzQ ... Xm3MyFI% 3D

[DLMURL] https://www.consultant.ru/popular/ukrf/10_40.html#p5279 [/ DLMURL]

On November 14, 2012, a new law on treason and espionage entered into force, which amends the criminal code, in particular the articles "Espionage", "State Treason", "Divulging State Secrets" and supplements it with an article on the illegal receipt of information constituting state secrets.

The concept of state treason has been expanded, now responsibility is facing for any help, whether to the state or to an organization if their activity is directed against the security of the Russian Federation. The concept of espionage now includes the collection of data, not necessarily classified and their transmission for use against the security of the country. The circle of persons on whom responsibility for espionage is imposed has also been expanded, now the collection of information falls not only at work, but also in “other cases”.

Oh my God. They also remembered spying. Let's talk about rape, huh?

I do not know what you personally argue with. In my opinion, "all countries" is not an argument, because the specialist should be interested in the legislation of the specific country in which he works.

There are a few simple things that are hard to dispute.

1. The Criminal Code must be respected, and there are no exceptions.

2. Each action of a specialist collecting and processing information should be correlated with the Criminal Code.

3. If the actions performed by the specialist do not contradict the Criminal Code, everyone can walk along the forest with their horror stories.

It's all. The rest is fiction, such as private opinions, phobias and disappointments with the lack of monopoly and other inexhaustible variety of fantasies.

 

[Детективное агентство Москва.]

What we argue has long been spelled out in the laws of all countries.
The legislation is constantly being improved and updated, study and draw conclusions.
Take for example the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation chapter 29 updated last year.

https://www.newsfiber.com/p/s/h?v=EOsPzQ ... Xm3MyFI% 3D

[DLMURL] https://www.consultant.ru/popular/ukrf/10_40.html#p5279 [/ DLMURL]

On November 14, 2012, a new law on treason and espionage entered into force, which amends the criminal code, in particular the articles "Espionage", "State Treason", "Divulging State Secrets" and supplements it with an article on the illegal receipt of information constituting state secrets.

The concept of state treason has been expanded, now responsibility is facing for any help, whether to the state or to an organization if their activity is directed against the security of the Russian Federation. The concept of espionage now includes the collection of data, not necessarily classified and their transmission for use against the security of the country. The circle of persons on whom responsibility for espionage is imposed has also been expanded, now the collection of information falls not only at work, but also in “other cases”.

Victor, IT'S ABOUT WHAT ??? And here is "Espionage", "State Treason", "Disclosure of state secrets" ??? We are talking about business, which is both the Black Sea activity and the Kyrgyz Republic. I actually met patients with detectives on their heads, but believe me, these are exceptions to the rules. And the sane person will not get into where they don’t need to.

 

[Детектив-Юг]

Cyril is the way it is, but at the present time and in our work there are many pitfalls.
For example, a simple question from a foreign customer to a detective can smoothly move to chapter 29 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
Moreover, everything can grow together solely according to the rules, I think it’s not worth giving examples.
And in the Kyrgyz Republic, even more so, you may not even notice this transition, the Kyrgyz Republic works in free flight and can dig up a lot of interesting things and then put it in the public domain from a sore head. And being sure that this is correct, the material was downloaded from the Internet.
And ignorance, alas, does not exempt, and if all of a sudden interests intersect with the current Kyrgyz Republic, then I’m completely silent.

 

[Детективное агентство Москва.]

Cyril is the way it is, but at the present time and in our work there are many pitfalls.
For example, a simple question from a foreign customer to a detective can smoothly move to chapter 29 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
Moreover, everything can grow together solely according to the rules, I think it’s not worth giving examples.
And in the Kyrgyz Republic, even more so, you may not even notice this transition, the Kyrgyz Republic works in free flight and can dig up a lot of interesting things and then put it in the public domain from a sore head. And being sure that this is correct, the material was downloaded from the Internet.
And ignorance, alas, does not liberate.

Victor:
1, to notice the transitions - for this the head is given.
2. The Kyrgyz Republic operates in free flight and can dig a lot of interesting things, and the BH also reports only to the customer and can dig a lot of interesting things, and then see paragraph 1

I don’t understand what the speech is about. We are already discussing who is cooler, smarter, etc. Do you really think that respected people working in the field of the Kyrgyz Republic are dumber than detectives?

 

[Андрей Захаров]

UCHD is a person engaged only in the collection of information and all ...

But isn't a private detective engaged in interpreting the collected information? What does he have - collecting information for the sake of the collection itself?

If a person (legal or physical) collects this information only for "his needs" - violations of the Law when collecting this information (in principle) is not (excluding explicitly prohibited methods of collecting information) ... If this information is collected by a person for another person (physical or legal) in this case, this information can be collected (within the framework of the legal field, of course) only of the BH providing the services provided by the Law (including not only the BHA Law, but also civil law) ...

Let's get in more detail from this place. The organization "Daisy" from Yakutsk became interested in the prospects for the development of a particular market. And also those who provide services similar to her own in Bryansk. She concludes an agreement with LLC Pedrishchev-Consult for these works. The result should be a report on the prospects for market development and a list of participants in Bryansk, with a brief description of each, suitable for making a decision on cooperation with him.

And you want to say that Pedrishchev-Consult LLC does not have the right to carry out this work without involving a private detective?

As long as the collection of information on these categories of “cases” is carried out outside the legal field, there can be no question of any civilized approach to the development of NPVs, at least in Russia ... I think that it’s not necessary to teach people how to get around the law when collecting information, and how to do it in accordance with the law ... And this can be done if only the black hole is involved in the collection of necessary information ... Something like this ...

I seem to understand your logic: you would like only a private detective to have the right to read newspapers and annual reports, as well as talk with those who own the situation on the market. Moreover, despite the fact that this is only your personal desire, not supported by anything other than a sense of inner conviction, you consider all other options illegal right now. Well, you know ... Legality is nevertheless verified with the Law, and not with the desires of detectives. Therefore, one can probably regret the absence of a monopoly, but declaring its absence illegal is, in my opinion, already too much.

Responding to all of the above, of course not wanting to enter into a “tough” debate, I will only say one thing: you need to distinguish between the concept of NPV and other areas of activity ... NPV was enshrined in the Legislation in particular so that information would be collected as a service (as can be seen from the norms of the Law). Based on this, collecting information as a paid service, the person already performs the actions provided for by the NPV Law ... Hence, everything else ... If the person collects information for himself, this is no longer service ... Something like this ... Regarding reading newspapers and other things, I think you don’t have to go too far ... I think that in topics posted on the Forum you need to teach people not to "circumvent" the Law, but to observe it ... By Regarding Pedrishchev-Consult LLC, regarding the collection of information that can be obtained by the methods specified in the NPV Law and specific to NPV, of course I consider participation of the NPV to be necessary ... (note, the answer is given only in relation to the collection of information, and not analytical work on their processing and issuing specific rivers changes is just a matter of the above mythical LLC). Although many, not being BHs, have a different opinion ... Probably because it’s easier ... (there is no proper control, there is no extra load on the face, like on IP, etc. .). And probably because the law enforcement bodies in the bulk of cases are not interested in how this or that information was obtained (simply, so to speak, not before) ... Although all this is up to the case ...))) ) We won’t argue ... everyone will have their own opinion. It takes a very long time ... Which, as you know, is expensive ....

 

[Детективное агентство Москва.]

Andrei, if we are talking about collecting information, then the Kyrgyz Republic does not collect information that the BH is charged with collecting:
1) collection of information on civil cases on a contractual basis with participants in the process;
2) ..., collecting information for business negotiations, identifying insolvent or unreliable business partners;
3) the establishment of the circumstances of the unlawful use of company marks and names in entrepreneurial activity, unfair competition, as well as the disclosure of information constituting a trade secret;
4) clarification of biographical and other personality-characterizing data on individual citizens (with their written consent) upon their conclusion of labor and other contracts;
five) ......
6) ......
7) collection of information on criminal cases on a contractual basis with participants in the process. Within a day from the moment of concluding a contract with the client for the collection of such information, the private investigator is obliged to notify the person conducting the inquiry, the investigator or the court in whose proceedings the criminal case is informed.

So explain to me what is the contradiction here?

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Cyril, hello))) The question on the Kyrgyz Republic is just the question of collecting information in the framework of market research, collecting information for business negotiations (for which the Kyrgyz Republic, as a marketing research service, can prepare analytical materials based on the information collected) ... I think that all this information (unless of course they are collected, I repeat, not for personal use by the person who collects them) should be collected precisely by the BH ... While the methods are allowed for use (survey, external examination, inquiries, examination of documents, visual observation) ... As a service for collecting information ... And this is consistent with the NPV Law ... To which you referred in this topic ... Regarding monitoring of publicly available information (contained on the Internet, various publicly available databases, of course, you can and do not resort to BH services (personal opinion) ... However, you yourself know, not everything that is open to the public is reliable and always subject to verification by the methods that are characteristic of BHs, as legitimate activities authorized by the state by emphasis ... Although it is possible, probably, violating the current norms of the right to obtain information in another way)))) But this is a completely different topic ... It seems that this topic deals with the legal ways of collecting information ...

 

[Детективное агентство Москва.]

Andrei, still let me repeat myself :
In order to investigate permitted ......
Please tell me where it says that to collect information and process it and sell it - only BH can.
Those. Based on your logic, all real estate agencies should hire a BH to collect information on this very property, and anyone who wants to enter the confectionery market cannot get information on this market from the analytical agency, because only BH should collect this information? Or do you want to say that law firms working on trademark protection have the right to receive information only from BH? And this is only because BH is allowed to establish the circumstances of the unlawful use of company marks and names in entrepreneurial activity. In my opinion, this is not so.

Moreover, I completely agree with Eugene:
The Constitution of the Russian Federation: "Article 29 4. Everyone has the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information by any legal means."
I, without breaking the law, received the information (and even without processing it) distributed it in a legal way (and selling is also a legal way of dissemination) - I did not violate anything.
Yes, there are laws that prohibit to all categories collect and distribute DEFINED information, well, do not violate them.
Something like that.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Cyril is the way it is, but at the present time and in our work there are many pitfalls.

there are pitfalls in any job. For example, in the work of the conductor of the train car. So what? A professional differs from an amateur in that he must know these problems and be able not to get into them.

For example, a simple question from a foreign customer to a detective can smoothly move to chapter 29 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
Moreover, everything can grow together solely according to the rules, I think it’s not worth giving examples.

Why, then? Just these examples are very indicative. Because they say that if a person had the intention to harm the country, he was punished. Examples, when a person has neither a dream nor a spirit - and at the same time really got under the distribution, I somehow did not meet. This is if you look at what really happened, and not the excuses of the accused, which are assigned to him by status.

And in the Kyrgyz Republic, even more so, you may not even notice this transition, the Kyrgyz Republic works in free flight and can dig up a lot of interesting things and then put it in the public domain from a sore head. And being sure that this is correct, the material was downloaded from the Internet.

You would have left these fantasies, dear, to yourself ... For several reasons. Starting with the fact that specialists of the Kyrgyz Republic who received training in this area, and are not just called that way, are told about this problem. And they say, in general, in the complex.

And ignorance, alas, does not exempt, and if all of a sudden interests intersect with the current Kyrgyz Republic, then I’m completely silent.

Well, let's do it without horror, but really? The real essence of the matter is as follows.

1. If the issue that the Kyrgyz Republic is aiming at (it’s not just “digging in the open air”, but is working on a specific task, otherwise it’s not the Kyrgyz Republic and not work) concerns military products - you don’t have to be an idiot and get into it.

2. If the question is about dual-use products - it is better not to go too. But if it doesn’t work out, one must take the material to the FSB before handing it over to the customer and ask them to look. This is from life, there were precedents. If you gave the nod, give it to the customer. If not, listen to what they say.

3. If the work is commissioned by a foreign company, this is similar to that in paragraph 2

4. If a specialist of the Kyrgyz Republic had the intention to help abroad precisely to the detriment of the interests of the country, he should be punished, and he should not be spared.

5. If the specialist of the Kyrgyz Republic did not have the intention to help a foreign power, did not imagine and could not assume that he was helping her, he was used "blindly." In this case, he will almost inevitably be involved in the preliminary investigation process. But in what capacity is the question. In addition to the accomplice, in fact, there is still a witness. Let it help to catch enemies - this is his civic duty, actually.

Well, there’s a question there - whether it was previously admitted to state secrets or not. This is also important.

What fundamentally new can you add to this?

 

[Детективное агентство Тула]

Please tell me where it says that to collect information and process it and sell it - only BH can.

I would deliberately exacerbate Cyril's question:
Is there a direct prohibition in the legislation of the Russian Federation for an ordinary citizen, foreigner or stateless person, to collect information that a private detective can collect?

Or even simpler:
What special privileges, specifically for the collection of information, to a private detective in front of other citizens, foreigners or stateless persons, are granted by the BH license?