The difference in KR and detective work

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

These are quotes on the topic, from this forum, yesterday-the day before yesterday. I saved them and give them compactly here, because the issue is not only theoretical, but also applied (in terms of areas of interaction between specialists) in nature.

 

[Матушкин Андрей Николаевич]

We will be grateful!

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Heinrich Lemke Opinion:

The answer to Igor’s question: “I even want to write an article on how to equip and what to demand from a smartphone (relatively speaking, home-grown James Bond). Will you help Henrikh Ernstovich? Do you have a lot of ideas, or maybe you already have some ideas?” .

The primary task of a scout is to obtain information (subsequent analysis and forecasting, for now let’s omit it). A scout must be able to do this so that:
- DO NOT leave traces;
- DO NOT “illuminate” your intelligence activity to outsiders (ie, working in plain sight - to remain “invisible” to others)
- It is highly DESIRABLE to do this remotely - NOT by coming into direct contact with the development object.

In commercial intelligence, in the vast majority of cases, the immediate objects of intelligence interest are facts / events / circumstances / activity of a market or competitive nature (i.e., THIS IS NOT the action of any particular person involved). To collect such information to a sufficient degree - is relatively easy and safe - IF KNOWING - WHERE and WHAT to look for. And, here - the task is more difficult - the goal of intelligence is to work on the FORWARDING of the very facts - events / events / circumstances / activity - BEFORE their actual implementation in reality.

The detective’s task, as it seems to me, is OPPOSITE, in the sense of looking for conditional “traces” and conducting further investigation of certain events that have already occurred or are ongoing (I don’t know and don’t know the statistics whether the detectives work on prevention, i.e. also on WARNING )

The DIFFERENCE in these approaches in work seems to me an insurmountable obstacle in writing an article.

Although, of course, in the work of both the detective and the intelligence analyst there are general methods related to the search for information and its sources, interaction with sources (if these are people), the legends of approaches and, of course, the methods of information and analytical work themselves. For example, the assessment of information and the sources of its receipt according to the criteria of reliability (sources) and reliability (information) is, in principle, carried out on the basis of well-known 4x4 and 6x6 assessment systems, which are used in intelligence and law enforcement agencies, in any case, in British countries commonwealth. However, the systems themselves are so simple and convenient that we borrowed them for our work.

The REQUIREMENT for the conditional technique (telephone, computer, etc.) used by the scout is in the “field”, in essence, ONE is ensuring ANONYMITY and NOT leaving traces - by which you can identify:
- firstly, the very ACTIVITY of intelligence;
- secondly, GOALS and OBJECTS for which intelligence works;
- thirdly, WHO? which company carries out or carried out intelligence (in those rare cases when it comes to studying competitors or benchmarking)

For these cases, commercial intelligence has its own zone of TABU, PROHIBITIONS and RESTRICTIONS ... here, after all, it is IMPORTANT - DO NOT violate the laws!

https://komrazvedka.blogspot.ru/2011/10/ ... st_24.html

Once again, I dare to assert that between intelligence and, say, counterintelligence, there is a global difference in content and orientation (which, in general, is already reflected in the prefix KONTR).

In the Soviet Union, yes, in general, and in Russia, intelligence and counterintelligence were trained in various departments and institutions (if, for example, the KGB, as it were, is a single department, then I Glavk was responsible for intelligence. , and for counterintelligence - II Glavk, and each had its own "school" of specialty training).

What is the apparent difference in performance?

The scout - in the vast majority of cases - DOES NOT work for a specific person (we will not take separate methods of undercover operations). It works globally - in relation to states, foreign policy, technology and other challenges and threats - to its state. (In commercial intelligence, KEY GOALS and OBJECTS are, first of all, market risks and opportunities that affect the company's receipt of income and competitors, by the way, are NOT included in priority objects of intelligence development, giving way to: market trends, technologies, changes in market regulation , changes in fashion and consumer preferences, etc.)

A counterintelligence agent, working against enemy intelligence, unlike an intelligence agent, as a rule ALWAYS, works on specific persons involved or suspected groups of persons involved - organized (online) or NOT organized.

There is NOT much in common between intelligence and counterintelligence. Some methods and techniques of operational intelligence, methods and techniques of information and analytical work, some software that can equally be used both in intelligence and counterintelligence as part of the tasks of searching, accumulating and processing information.

At the same time, they ALWAYS work on DIFFERENT OBJECTS and GOALS and with different tasks ...

In the territory of Russia and the CIS countries, for a number of reasons, it has developed SO - that the field of activity designated as - COMPETITIVE intelligence - is actually a field of SECURITY, i.e. in fact - NOT intelligence (and it really is NOT engaged in the development of MARKET objects within the scope of commercial intelligence), and is more related to the sphere of counterintelligence, working with regard to external and internal risks and criminal or near-criminal threats from the competitive and criminal environment, but also the internal staff of the company itself.

Surely, you are aware of competitive intelligence forums: https://it2b.ru/company/hreshebnik/blog/ ... m = facebook and https://www.razved.info/ visit them and keep in mind that virtually all of the issues that are being discussed are NOT included in the scope of commercial intelligence intelligence, which is NOT absolutely ABSOLUTELY !!!

Now, to your question: "What can be the methods of commercial intelligence in one-time operations, when a specific task is posed? For example, get the staffing of a certain company."

I suppose you will find enough answers in the practical case of the Forest School (just read in order):
1) https://razved-school.blogspot.ru/2012/0 ... st_28.html
2) https://razved-school.blogspot.ru/2012/05/333.html

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To Robert’s question: “Yes, you can generally only engage in commercial intelligence, having a license just in case. Like a legend to work in another direction, search for a person, for example. What is not an excuse?”

For commercial intelligence - NO LICENSES - NEEDED! We work in the so-called "gray zone" - based on the principle - ALLOWED - ALL - THAT IS NOT PROHIBITED by law. We ALWAYS work undercover and officially, as in any intelligence service - we DO NOT exist ...

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I can’t agree with you Igor in this matter: "And in this regard, the scout, unlike the counterintelligence, does not know and does not assume at the beginning of his work his final result or even the expected result"

The fact is that intelligence - just works in relation to strictly defined goals and objects - ADVANCED / ADVANCED defined (in the course of a special analytical procedure) as objects belonging to the groups representing the greatest danger / opportunity for the company’s business and having a high probability of implementation - in future.

The results of the intelligence in general and the intelligence officer in particular are also quite specific - ADVANCE / ADVANCE - identify risks / opportunities that are just beginning to be realized and warn management about these risks and their consequences - BEFORE the moment the risk is realized in reality.

As for the film “Nothing Personal” - there, however, in my opinion, of course, the intelligence work with a negative result is shown, because opening the promoted “dummy” was NOT difficult, just looking more carefully for retrospective information about the developer of the promoted product . This, in other matters, is about COMPETITIVE intelligence.

I dare to repeat once again that in COMMERCIAL intelligence the share of research attributable to competitors rarely goes abroad 7-10% of the total volume of intelligence development of objects of study. Competitors are NOT KEY objects of intelligence development and are NOT among the priority objects of study.

The goals of commercial intelligence - in fact - THREE and all of them are directly related to the market and market opportunities / threats:

1) increase the profitability and profitability of the business;

2) ensuring tactical (current) and strategic competitiveness of the company’s business in the business segment;

3) modernization of internal technological / business / production / etc. processes that affect the reduction of production costs and the cost of the product, And - the modernization of the product / service of the company, in order to comply with market conditions and consumer needs.

I note that ensuring competitiveness implies NOT at all a struggle with competitors (since the goal of a business is to make a profit, but NOT a victory over competitors), but the struggle is FOR the consumer - with quality, price, manufacturability of the product, convenience of sale, service, etc. . while reducing production costs and unit costs.

Indeed, the MAIN goal of absolutely ANY intelligence, in principle, is to identify a highly probable risk / threat and to PROMPT WARN the management before it starts ...

The key intelligence product is the FORECAST-ANALYSIS of the future situation (related to a specific object of intelligence development), we call THIS - intelligence assessment or intelligence assessment.

In fact, intelligence, based on reliable sources, tells management about WHAT IS NOT REAL in reality, but WHAT will happen in the near or more distant future with a high degree of probability. If THIS DOES NOT happen, then most likely it is NOT about intelligence, but about the investigation of some already occurred or ongoing events / circumstances / facts / phenomena / activity / etc. - i.e. Intelligence did NOT cope with its mission and direct mission.

In addition, to the above - in intelligence, IF you DON'T know what exactly and specifically to look for, then you will NOT find this !!!

That is why the PRECISE definition of GOALS and OBJECTS in intelligence (i.e., in essence - of what does NOT exist yet) plays a key role in its subsequent effectiveness.

If intelligence does NOT work for those PURPOSES and OBJECTS, then it is NOT capable of solving its tasks - missing important (in commercial intelligence) risks and opportunities that will turn into major business troubles.

In military affairs - even worse! Incorrect targeting of intelligence - leads to defeats in the military company.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

My remark on the above opinion of Heinrich Lemke:

The difference in goals and objectives is yes.

The difference is that the detective works more often (but not always) with what has already happened, and the scout more often (but not always) with what has not happened - yes too.

In work on people - no. Here, in the justification of the esteemed Heinrich, in my opinion there was a substitution of concepts. More precisely, a comparison of incomparable values.

1. The transition from a detective to counterintelligence, in my opinion, is not very correct in itself. I did not delve into who made it - the author of the title or Henry, I’m talking about the fact itself. The detective is not engaged in counterintelligence, as a rule.

2. Competitive intelligence works on both people and trends. at least due to the fact that it is much poorer than state intelligence both in resources and in people. Therefore, in the Kyrgyz Republic, "both the Shvets and the Reaper" is a reality. By the way, in the detective story too. For this reason alone, the story that intelligence works on threats and opportunities, and counterintelligence works on people, in my opinion is incorrect.

In addition, if we talk about strategic directions (namely, they work in intelligence on trends) - counterintelligence does exactly the same thing. No wonder they are talking about the SYSTEM of counter-intelligence measures. The system would not be such if it concerned exclusively specific people.

Therefore, it seems to me that the similarity of detective activities and CR is primarily in tools. Almost everything else is a difference. But, since the toolkit has to be studied the same way, experts understand each other quite well.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

My opinion on this issue expressed in a conversation with Igor Bederov:

Bederov Igor Sergeevich wrote (a): Perhaps you have experience applying CR to detective work.


Specifically, the detective - still not. My specialty is information warfare. First of all, corporate conflicts. and in this area, detectives usually don't work. At the same time, even if a detective starts working in this area, there will be no difference with any other specialist.

But, it seems to me, the work of non-state intelligence comes down to several modules that fully fit into the concept of the intelligence cycle:

- Understanding the task (the process, in fact, is not always simple, it is akin to making a diagnosis in medicine)

- Definition of objects and sources (i.e. where and how to get information)

- Directly collecting information (requires possession of tools - and different, from the Internet to interacting with people)

- Interpretation of information (the most difficult part of the work, requires good analytical preparation, and at the same time - intuition, creativity)

- Preparation of the document and its transfer to the decision maker (customer).

The detective, as I understand it, does exactly the same thing. But the detective better knows his part of the law and the features of the work with which customers usually come to him. The competitive intelligence or spin-doctor (which I, in fact, am) has just a different section of the legislation, other customers, and from here - other features. But these are technical details, they are not of a fundamental nature. But the approaches and working methods are universal.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Opinion of the participant of the NVK63 Competitive Intelligence Practitioners Community Forum (he is safe):

I agree more with Eugene than with Henry.
I would also like to note that the detective is a high-ranking official, an individual entrepreneur with a clearly limited set of rights and obligations. His activity is regulated by a special law.
A competitive intelligence officer, in principle, is in the same legal field as any specialist working in a certain area of the economy; he is not under any special legal restrictions.

 

[Матушкин Андрей Николаевич]

Thank you so much!!!

 

[Детективное агентство Москва.]

Eugene, thank you very much for your opinion. Interesting.

 

[JR Security Consulting Group]

The opinion of a professional. Thank you very much Eugene.

 

[Детектив-Юг]

The difference in KR and detective work

Ladies and gentlemen!
Let me summarize this huge number of letters in several lines:

A detective is a specialist recognized by the legislation of the country with relevant experience, knowledge, relevant to certain parameters, acting in the interests of the customer and the country that issued him the license to conduct detective activities in the framework of the legislation of this country.

Commercial intelligence officer - This is a citizen of the country in which he lives, to which all the laws and legal acts of this and other countries apply, in which he, as a citizen of his country, carries out his activities, bearing full responsibility for all his actions in accordance with the laws and legal acts of these countries.

Even shorter:
A detective is an individual entrepreneur operating within the legal framework.
A commercial intelligence agent is an individual who carries out his activities at his discretion and understanding, at his own risk.