Competitive intelligence in the Premier League business

[Бедеров Игорь Сергеевич]

Well, firstly, such tasks are set by intelligence, not the Security Council. There are private intelligence services in a number of countries, some even created with the help of special services.

We are returning to working methods ... How does a scout act in the sovereign service and the Kyrgyz Republic!

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Well, we’ve agreed Before "industrial espionage" ... But the question, I think, is worthy of discussion (personal opinion) ... How should actions of specific individuals to collect information be evaluated (as actions falling under the concept of "industrial espionage" ", or as actions within the framework of the Kyrgyz Republic) ... Situation. An order was received to study the needs of the market, within which it became necessary to collect information on establishing the monthly sales volume of a specific (grocery, but not perishable) product at a particular wholesale object. The given company, from which it is necessary to obtain the specified information, has not established the "Commercial Secret" mode, but the information to be established is confidential and undesirable for disclosure. There is no publicly requested information. Moreover, the customer wishes to receive not just information, but information that should be obtained and documented in any way. So, what actions should be taken by persons who will be implemented To collect this information and how their actions will be regarded to collect this information (industrial espionage, actions within the Kyrgyz Republic or something else) ....

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

But the question, I think, is worthy of discussion (personal opinion) ... How to evaluate the actions of specific individuals to collect information (as actions that fall under the concept of "industrial espionage", or as actions within the framework of the Kyrgyz Republic) ... The situation. An order was received to study the needs of the market, within the framework of which there was a need to collect information on establishing the monthly sales volume of a specific (grocery, but not perishable) product at a particular wholesale trade facility. At this enterprise, from which it is necessary to obtain the specified information, the Commercial mode is not established secrets, "but the information to be established is confidential and undesirable for disclosure. There is no publicly requested information. At the same time, the customer wants to receive not just information, but information that must be obtained and documented in any way. So, what actions should be taken by persons who will collect this information and how their actions will be evaluated to collect this information (industrial espionage, actions within the Kyrgyz Republic or something else) ....

OK. Let's try to consider. But we need to clarify a bit.

At this enterprise, from which it is necessary to obtain the specified information, the "Commercial Secret" regime is not established, but the information to be established is confidential and undesirable for disclosure.

And on what basis (legal, I mean) are they “confidential and undesirable for disclosure”? Or is this just an internal conviction of company management?

At the same time, the customer wants to receive not just information, but information that must be obtained and documented in any way.

Can I be more precise? What do you mean documented and why?

And another question - it's only about the volume in rubles, I understand correctly?

 

[Андрей Захаров]

But the question, I think, is worthy of discussion (personal opinion) ... How to evaluate the actions of specific individuals to collect information (as actions that fall under the concept of "industrial espionage", or as actions within the framework of the Kyrgyz Republic) ... The situation. An order was received to study the needs of the market, within the framework of which there was a need to collect information on establishing the monthly sales volume of a specific (grocery, but not perishable) product at a particular wholesale trade facility. At this enterprise, from which it is necessary to obtain the specified information, the Commercial mode is not established secrets, "but the information to be established is confidential and undesirable for disclosure. There is no publicly requested information. At the same time, the customer wants to receive not just information, but information that must be obtained and documented in any way. So, what actions should be taken by persons who will collect this information and how their actions will be evaluated to collect this information (industrial espionage, actions within the Kyrgyz Republic or something else) ....

OK. Let's try to consider. But we need to clarify a bit.

At this enterprise, from which it is necessary to obtain the specified information, the "Commercial Secret" regime is not established, but the information to be established is confidential and undesirable for disclosure.

And on what basis (legal, I mean) are they “confidential and undesirable for disclosure”? Or is this just an internal conviction of company management?

At the same time, the customer wants to receive not just information, but information that must be obtained and documented in any way.

Can I be more precise? What do you mean documented and why?

And another question - it's only about the volume in rubles, I understand correctly?

Answering the questions.
Regarding the fact that this information is confidential, the position of the management of the company and employees of this company have been warned about this. Regarding the legal status of this requirement, the leadership is the legal position, of course, is not defined, due to the fact that there is such a concept, as enshrined in the Law- " Commercial secret. "However, in order for the Law on Commercial Secret to be enforced in a particular enterprise, it is necessary to carry out a certain procedure to introduce such a regime in the enterprise ... Such a procedure was not carried out ... Therefore, the above Law is the only normative the document regulating the regime of commercial secrets in a particular enterprise does not work. However, this information is not publicly available, in accordance with the rules of law.
Regarding the second question, sales volume, in total terms (based on the condition that we know the price of the goods) ...
regarding the third question — why the customer needs to document this information is not known (customer’s desire). Apparently, in order to consider any issues related to the activities of this enterprise, he would refer to specific facts, rather than possible speculation ... ( as one of the options). Documentation, as I said above, in any way (copies of documents, audio, video recordings, etc.)
for reference, excerpt from the Law on Commercial Secrets Article 5. Information that cannot constitute commercial secret
The regime of commercial secrets cannot be established by persons engaged in entrepreneurial activity in relation to the following information:
1) contained in the constituent documents of a legal entity, documents confirming the fact of making entries about legal entities and individual entrepreneurs in the relevant state registers;
2) contained in documents giving the right to carry out entrepreneurial activity;
3) on the composition of property of a state or municipal unitary enterprise, state institution and on their use of funds from the respective budgets;
4) environmental pollution, fire safety, sanitary-epidemiological and radiation conditions, food safety and other factors that have a negative impact on ensuring the safe functioning of production facilities, the safety of every citizen and the safety of the population as a whole;
5) the number, composition of employees, the wage system, working conditions, including labor protection, occupational injuries and occupational morbidity, and the availability of jobs;
6) on the debts of employers for the payment of wages and other social benefits;
7) on violations of the legislation of the Russian Federation and the facts of bringing to responsibility for the commission of these violations;
8) on the terms of tenders or auctions for the privatization of state or municipal property;
9) on the size and structure of the income of non-profit organizations, on the size and composition of their property, on their costs, on the number and salary of their employees, on the use of gratuitous labor of citizens in the activities of a non-profit organization;
10) on the list of persons entitled to act without a power of attorney on behalf of the legal entity;
11) the mandatory disclosure of which or the inadmissibility of restrictions on access to which is established by other federal laws.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Regarding the fact that this information is confidential, the position of the management of the company and employees of this company have been warned about this. Regarding the legal status of this requirement, the leadership is the legal position, of course, is not defined, due to the fact that there is such a concept, as enshrined in the Law- " Commercial secret. "However, in order for the Law on Commercial Secret to be enforced in a particular enterprise, it is necessary to carry out a certain procedure to introduce such a regime in the enterprise ... Such a procedure was not carried out ... Therefore, the above Law is the only normative the document regulating the trade secrets regime at a particular enterprise is not valid.

Thus, it is impossible to violate the Criminal Code regarding illegal access to trade secrets. Therefore, receiving this data even directly from an employee of the enterprise is not a violation of the Criminal Code. Right?

However, this information is not publicly available, in accordance with the rules of law.

Please provide the rules of law that state that this is not publicly available information. I would like to see the wording. And what are they - if they are not a trade secret?

Regarding the second question, sales volume, in total terms (based on the condition that we know the price of the goods) ...

Clear.
Offhand solutions:
- ask suppliers
- find out from large customers
- calculate the number of trucks for the period (the average cost of one truck is not a secret)
- attend the warehouse with customers, look around. Often seen documents, routes, stickers, etc. sources of information

regarding the third question — why the customer needs to document this information — is not known (customer’s desire)

You should find out, because depending on this you can look for options.

for reference, excerpt from the Law on Commercial Secrets Article 5. Information that cannot constitute commercial secret
The regime of commercial secrets cannot be established by persons engaged in entrepreneurial activity in relation to the following information:
1) contained in the constituent documents of a legal entity, documents confirming the fact of making entries about legal entities and individual entrepreneurs in the relevant state registers;
2) contained in documents giving the right to carry out entrepreneurial activity;
3) on the composition of property of a state or municipal unitary enterprise, state institution and on their use of funds from the respective budgets;
4) environmental pollution, fire safety, sanitary-epidemiological and radiation conditions, food safety and other factors that have a negative impact on ensuring the safe functioning of production facilities, the safety of every citizen and the safety of the population as a whole;
5) the number, composition of employees, the wage system, working conditions, including labor protection, occupational injuries and occupational morbidity, and the availability of jobs;
6) on the debts of employers for the payment of wages and other social benefits;
7) on violations of the legislation of the Russian Federation and the facts of bringing to responsibility for the commission of these violations;
8) on the terms of tenders or auctions for the privatization of state or municipal property;
9) on the size and structure of the income of non-profit organizations, on the size and composition of their property, on their costs, on the number and salary of their employees, on the use of gratuitous labor of citizens in the activities of a non-profit organization;
10) on the list of persons entitled to act without a power of attorney on behalf of the legal entity;
11) the mandatory disclosure of which or the inadmissibility of restrictions on access to which is established by other federal laws.

Yeah, that’s clear. But this means "they can’t set CT mode, even if they want to." We are considering the issue - when it is not installed, despite the fact that we could, if you thought it necessary. Well, they did not consider it necessary and not necessary. This is their choice.

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Answering questions. The rules of law are given. Everything that is not included in Article 5 of the Federal Law can be a commercial secret (including the requested information). Regarding the methods for obtaining the information you provide, this is a visual observation, an oral questioning. In case of , if you resort to such actions when collecting any information on the order of a specific person without having a BH license, there is already a violation of the Law (Article 20.16 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation at least) ... Regarding the recording of information, what difference does it make for the customer. .. That's all ... I’ve already talked about this ... But still, back to our main question, what will it be- "espionage", the Kyrgyz Republic or something else .... By the way, counting the trucks will not work ( there may be different products in the wagons, but we are interested in a specific type of product) ... Without familiarizing yourself with the documents, in this case, obviously we can’t do it ... That's for sure .... For all that, a person who possibly has similar information , in the event of its disclosure, it can be (purely theoretically) prosecuted under Art. 201 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, together with the person receiving this information, who may be held liable as a customer, organizer).

 

[Бедеров Игорь Сергеевич]

An order was received to study the needs of the market, within the framework of which there was a need to collect information on establishing the monthly sales volume of a specific (grocery, but not perishable) product at a specific wholesale object.

Trite, call the point every day and ask how much is left of the goods. Before that, get a strong legend.
You will get the opportunity to identify income and average consumption of goods.

Ask, I was engaged in retail chains ...

 

[Андрей Захаров]

Igor))) The object from which it is necessary to obtain information, the object is not retail, but wholesale (this is written in my post and quoted by you) ...

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

Answering questions. The rules of law are given. Everything that is not included in Article 5 of the Federal Law can be a commercial secret (including requested information).

Not. In order for me to violate something, we must compare what I did with what is forbidden.
Definition of a crime remember? "... Prohibited by this Code at risk of punishment." If there is no rule of law in which it is explicitly written that you cannot do this like that, then you can do that. An article about trade secrets is not applicable in this case. And what is applicable? If nothing, there is no problem.

Regarding the methods of obtaining the information you provide, this is a visual observation, an oral survey. In the event that you resort to such actions when collecting any information on the order of a specific person, without having a license, BH is already a violation of the Law (Article 20.16 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation minimum)...

Excuse me, what law forbids me to look around in order to try to understand the situation in the warehouse? What law forbids me to come to the conclusion that it is necessary to look around? And, for example, do not talk with the supplier? This is my personal decision. It seems to me that this can be useful - I went and checked if this is so. I don’t have and cannot have a contract for looking around, I need to evaluate the appropriateness of being in the market - according to the condition.

Regarding the recording of information, what's the difference, why does the customer need it ... Everything is needed ... I've already talked about this ...

Probably, this is another difference between the specialist of the Kyrgyz Republic, who works deliberately legally and the BH, which declares legality, but not the fact that it respects it.
Firstly, I need to know this in order to find an acceptable (for the client) option from among the legal ones. The question "what exactly do we need to know and why" is the very first in the intelligence cycle.
Secondly, doing “what they said” and not delving into the reasons, you can easily sit in the dock tomorrow - for example, as an accomplice in an attempted murder.
Therefore, if the client does not explain, then they are trying to use us blindly. Such a client goes the forest unconditionally.

But still, back to our main question - what will it be- "espionage", the Kyrgyz Republic or something else ...

We are doing this. Because if you work in violation of the Criminal Code, it will be espionage. But if you find a way to fit into the framework of the Criminal Code, it will be the Kyrgyz Republic. The border between them, I recall, passes along the Criminal Code. We initially discussed this, it is an axiom.

By the way, counting the wagons will not work (there may be different products in the wagons, but we are interested in a specific type of product) ... Without familiarizing yourself with the documents, this is clearly not enough ... That's for sure ....

That's why I asked you - what is it about, the volumes passing through the warehouse or not. By the way, even with this amendment, the calculation of trucks can give a result - after all, the specific gravity of a particular product in the total volume is, as a rule, known. And to calculate the “average check” is not a problem.

 

[Ющук Евгений Леонидович]

By the way, you can ask to go to the warehouse with someone together from friendly people. The law does not forbid anyone to visit warehouses with friends.
It is possible, if appropriate, to hold feigned negotiations on supplies, building a conversation in such a way as to evaluate how large a client we will be with our proposal, and how many they have.
It is possible to conduct feigned negotiations on employment - with former or current employees of the company, who posted their resume. We asked - they answered us. Well, or did not answer. The law does not prohibit this.